6 ms·

Colon is the correct separator there. Semicolon separates different instructions, a group of values that is a single instruction is colon separated. For example

Colon is the correct separator there. Semicolon separates different instructions, a group of values that is a single instruction is colon separated. For example \e[38:5:196;1m specifies red and bold. Using ";" is popular, and some parsers even require it, but it makes little sense. A terminal that doesn't know about 38 (anything old) will interpret that 5 as blink if you use ";", which is not what anyone wants.

zadjii 4y ago
From my experience, the colon separator for 256/rgb attributes is a fairly recent clarification to the spec. I think that's the way it was always supposed to be. But when I was initially writing the 256 color support for the Windows Console about 6 years ago, `TERM=xterm-256color` still emitted colors with just the semicolons as a separator. The colons are more correct, but the semicolons are seemingly more broadly supported.
- drougge 4y ago
  Part of the problem is probably that termcap uses : as a separator between capabilities. There is \C for colon, but there are implementations that don't support it. If nothing else I know the termcap[info] command in screen doesn't. That doesn't stop terminals from supporting it of course, just from saying they do.
- wezfurlong 4y ago
  I don't recall where I saw it, but my understanding was that : was in the original spec but one of the early implementors (Konsole?) misread it and used ; and that erroneous form is what took off, and here we are today.
  - follower 4y ago
    I'm guessing it may have been one or both of these `xterm`-related documents: * <https://invisible-island.net/xterm/ctlseqs/ctlseqs.html#h4-Functions-using-CSI-_-ordered-by-the-final-character-lparen-s-rparen:CSI-Ps-@.1C80 https://invisible-island.net/xterm/ctlseqs/ctlseqs.html#h4-F...> * <https://invisible-island.net/xterm/xterm.faq.html#color_by_number https://invisible-island.net/xterm/xterm.faq.html#color_by_n...> More details in my other comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35157058 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35157058
epage 4y ago
> Colon is the correct separator there Where would I find this documented and how broadly is it supported? So far, the most exhaustive documentation I've found is wikipedia [0], vt100 [2], and wezterm with only wezterm talking about this. I also have not seen `:` handled in the various parsers (e.g. `vte` for alacritty) or generators (e.g. `termcolor`) I've looked at. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANSI_escape_code https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANSI_escape_code [1] https://vt100.net/emu/dec_ansi_parser https://vt100.net/emu/dec_ansi_parser
- follower 4y ago
  Okay, it took a little bit of digging but I eventually found more about this via a link from the Wikipedia page. * via <https://invisible-island.net/xterm/ctlseqs/ctlseqs.html#h4-Functions-using-CSI-_-ordered-by-the-final-character-lparen-s-rparen:CSI-Ps-@.1C80 https://invisible-island.net/xterm/ctlseqs/ctlseqs.html#h4-F...> (search for "CSI Pm m Character Attributes (SGR)"): If 88- or 256-color support is compiled, the following apply: [snip] o The 88- and 256-color support uses subparameters described in ISO-8613-6 for indexed color. ISO-8613-6 also mentions direct color, using a similar scheme. xterm supports that, too. o xterm allows either colons (standard) or semicolons (legacy) to separate the subparameters (but after the first colon, colons must be used). The indexed- and direct-color features are summarized in the FAQ, which explains why semicolon is accepted as a subparameter delimiter: Can I set a color by its number? (This links to <https://invisible-island.net/xterm/xterm.faq.html#color_by_number https://invisible-island.net/xterm/xterm.faq.html#color_by_n...>.) The `ctlseqs` document continues: These ISO-8613-6 controls (marked in ECMA-48 5th edition as "reserved for future standardization") are supported by xterm: [snip example with colons ":"] This variation on ISO-8613-6 is supported for compatibility with KDE konsole: [snip example with semicolons ";"] So, the confusion between use of ";" and ":" separators is because the RGB values are not actually parameters (specified as separated by ";"), rather, the RGB values are subparameters (specified as separated by ":"). [Edit #1] This is covered in more detail by <https://invisible-island.net/xterm/xterm.faq.html#color_by_number https://invisible-island.net/xterm/xterm.faq.html#color_by_n...> (mentioned above): We used semicolon (like other SGR parameters) for separating the R/G/B values in the escape sequence, since a copy of ITU T.416 (ISO-8613-6) which presumably clarified the use of colon for this feature was costly. Using semicolon was incorrect because some applications could expect their parameters to be order-independent. As used for the R/G/B values, that was order-dependent. The relevant information, by the way, is part of ECMA-48 (not ITU T.416, as mentioned in Why only 16 (or 256) colors?). Quoting from section 5.4.2 of ECMA-48, page 12, and adding emphasis (not in the standard): [snip] Of course you will immediately recognize that 03/10 is ASCII colon, and that ISO 8613-6 necessarily refers to the encoding in a parameter sub-string. Or perhaps you will not. :D [snip] Later, in 2012 (patch #282), I extended the parser to accommodate the corrected syntax. The original remains, simply because of its widespread use. As before, it took a few years for other terminal developers to notice and start incorporating the improvement. As of March 2016, not all had finished noticing. [snip] * Going forward (e.g., xterm patch #357), these terminfo building blocks are used in ncurses: * xterm+256color2 is the building-block for standard terminals * xterm+256color is a building-block for nonstandard terminals It's unfortunately seemingly not possible to directly link to the specific text but hopefully that's enough pointers for people to find it themselves. Once again, seems it's amazing that anything works anywhere. :D [Edit #1: Corrected from subparameter separator from "," (which is correct for one of the specs I read but incorrect here) to ":".] [Edit #2: Typo fix.]

zadjii 4y ago

From my experience, the colon separator for 256/rgb attributes is a fairly recent clarification to the spec. I think that's the way it was always supposed to be. But when I was initially writing the 256 color support for the Windows Console about 6 years ago, `TERM=xterm-256color` still emitted colors with just the semicolons as a separator. The colons are more correct, but the semicolons are seemingly more broadly supported.

drougge 4y ago
Part of the problem is probably that termcap uses : as a separator between capabilities. There is \C for colon, but there are implementations that don't support it. If nothing else I know the termcap[info] command in screen doesn't. That doesn't stop terminals from supporting it of course, just from saying they do.
wezfurlong 4y ago
I don't recall where I saw it, but my understanding was that : was in the original spec but one of the early implementors (Konsole?) misread it and used ; and that erroneous form is what took off, and here we are today.
- follower 4y ago
  I'm guessing it may have been one or both of these `xterm`-related documents: * <https://invisible-island.net/xterm/ctlseqs/ctlseqs.html#h4-Functions-using-CSI-_-ordered-by-the-final-character-lparen-s-rparen:CSI-Ps-@.1C80 https://invisible-island.net/xterm/ctlseqs/ctlseqs.html#h4-F...> * <https://invisible-island.net/xterm/xterm.faq.html#color_by_number https://invisible-island.net/xterm/xterm.faq.html#color_by_n...> More details in my other comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35157058 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35157058

epage 4y ago

> Colon is the correct separator there Where would I find this documented and how broadly is it supported? So far, the most exhaustive documentation I've found is wikipedia [0], vt100 [2], and wezterm with only wezterm talking about this. I also have not seen `:` handled in the various parsers (e.g. `vte` for alacritty) or generators (e.g. `termcolor`) I've looked at. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANSI_escape_code https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANSI_escape_code [1] https://vt100.net/emu/dec_ansi_parser https://vt100.net/emu/dec_ansi_parser

follower 4y ago
Okay, it took a little bit of digging but I eventually found more about this via a link from the Wikipedia page. * via <https://invisible-island.net/xterm/ctlseqs/ctlseqs.html#h4-Functions-using-CSI-_-ordered-by-the-final-character-lparen-s-rparen:CSI-Ps-@.1C80 https://invisible-island.net/xterm/ctlseqs/ctlseqs.html#h4-F...> (search for "CSI Pm m Character Attributes (SGR)"): If 88- or 256-color support is compiled, the following apply: [snip] o The 88- and 256-color support uses subparameters described in ISO-8613-6 for indexed color. ISO-8613-6 also mentions direct color, using a similar scheme. xterm supports that, too. o xterm allows either colons (standard) or semicolons (legacy) to separate the subparameters (but after the first colon, colons must be used). The indexed- and direct-color features are summarized in the FAQ, which explains why semicolon is accepted as a subparameter delimiter: Can I set a color by its number? (This links to <https://invisible-island.net/xterm/xterm.faq.html#color_by_number https://invisible-island.net/xterm/xterm.faq.html#color_by_n...>.) The `ctlseqs` document continues: These ISO-8613-6 controls (marked in ECMA-48 5th edition as "reserved for future standardization") are supported by xterm: [snip example with colons ":"] This variation on ISO-8613-6 is supported for compatibility with KDE konsole: [snip example with semicolons ";"] So, the confusion between use of ";" and ":" separators is because the RGB values are not actually parameters (specified as separated by ";"), rather, the RGB values are subparameters (specified as separated by ":"). [Edit #1] This is covered in more detail by <https://invisible-island.net/xterm/xterm.faq.html#color_by_number https://invisible-island.net/xterm/xterm.faq.html#color_by_n...> (mentioned above): We used semicolon (like other SGR parameters) for separating the R/G/B values in the escape sequence, since a copy of ITU T.416 (ISO-8613-6) which presumably clarified the use of colon for this feature was costly. Using semicolon was incorrect because some applications could expect their parameters to be order-independent. As used for the R/G/B values, that was order-dependent. The relevant information, by the way, is part of ECMA-48 (not ITU T.416, as mentioned in Why only 16 (or 256) colors?). Quoting from section 5.4.2 of ECMA-48, page 12, and adding emphasis (not in the standard): [snip] Of course you will immediately recognize that 03/10 is ASCII colon, and that ISO 8613-6 necessarily refers to the encoding in a parameter sub-string. Or perhaps you will not. :D [snip] Later, in 2012 (patch #282), I extended the parser to accommodate the corrected syntax. The original remains, simply because of its widespread use. As before, it took a few years for other terminal developers to notice and start incorporating the improvement. As of March 2016, not all had finished noticing. [snip] * Going forward (e.g., xterm patch #357), these terminfo building blocks are used in ncurses: * xterm+256color2 is the building-block for standard terminals * xterm+256color is a building-block for nonstandard terminals It's unfortunately seemingly not possible to directly link to the specific text but hopefully that's enough pointers for people to find it themselves. Once again, seems it's amazing that anything works anywhere. :D [Edit #1: Corrected from subparameter separator from "," (which is correct for one of the specs I read but incorrect here) to ":".] [Edit #2: Typo fix.]