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Would your company be willing to provide an open-source local-first websocket-based integration with https://www.home-assistant.io/ https://www.home-assistant.i

Would your company be willing to provide an open-source local-first websocket-based integration with https://www.home-assistant.io/ https://www.home-assistant.io/ or use the new Matter + Thread standard to provide it for everyone? If that's available, this would be my top choice as I'm actively shopping for all-electric heat pumps

stevenpetryk 4y ago
Or the company could at least leave it easy to hack :)
- walterbell 4y ago
  Implement with a swappable compute module?
  - samstave 4y ago
    We need an entire industry of 'appliance based Rpi's to be able to act as modules in a standardly compute plug-in-form factor (just like blades) with a unit preloaded with a config and just swap out inter connects - ich that we have an appliance hub, the solar/whatever input pushes power and the distributor determines where to push or halt the power - with a selector that tells me the input costs, and output draws, such that it can have a system to auto switch to best performance. Honywell missed the mark on the importance of thermostats on the economy.
  - whstl 4y ago
    My dream is something equivalent to a Dumb TV + Chromecast.
cmui 4y ago
It's something we'd definitely consider. Is the desire to have thermostat control via any third party? edit - The current plan has been Matter/thread Homekit + Google Home integration. We can expose at least temperature control via this to everyone.
- JshWright 4y ago
  I think the desire would be a locally accessible API so that anyone could build an integration to it.
- mabbo 4y ago
  Consider it is as a competitive advantage. An API that is public, well-documented, and easy for other systems to securely integrate with would mean that customers get the integration they want. If someone builds a better way to utilize your system, then you just got value-add on your product at basically zero cost. Amazon can hook Alexa into it. Google can hook their Home thing into it. And whatever comes next, whatever doesn't even exist today, should have an easy time integrating, continuing to add value.
  - RicDan 4y ago
    Completely agree on this point. I've worked over half a decade with smart home systems, and it's just so much easier (and cheaper!) to integrate well documented, open APIs (and please make them secure, I have nightmares of all the open, unencrypted UDP based alarm systems) that is purely local. This means we would highly recommend these products even tho we made zero money off them, and customers would actually prefer them as well - it's well beyond the time of people naively buying this stuff, and they know that clouds can just "go offline". What also can't be underestimated is the tinker community. Many people in the smart home business are tinkerers themselfs; create a great product for them and they will inevitably try to use it at their job. But this really isn't only applicable to integrators, really.
- AYBABTME 4y ago
  Yes, and particularly in a local/LAN/no internet manner. Local push or local pull.
- xxpor 4y ago
  (not OP, but I also use HA) The important bit is to have an open API that can be connected to from the local network (or via Matter + Thread, etc), and via a cloud. Then anyone can develop a client. This also has benefits in UX: the latency to update is much lower than cloud based polling, since that's almost always rate limited. The closer anything is to the bottom of the chart here, the better. When buying something as expensive as a heat pump, I wouldn't even consider something that isn't at least local polling: https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2016/02/12/classifying-the-internet-of-things/ https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2016/02/12/classifying-th... That being said, I'm not opposed to value add things via cloud services. Want to get the weather via a cloud service, even if that changes the schedule? Totally fine! But ultimate control must be local.
jacquesm 4y ago
Seconded.
0xbadcafebee 4y ago
If I'm gonna invest in a heat pump for the long term, I don't want it committed to any software technology that may be obsolete in 10 years. I want it to use something so dead stupid simple that anything in 50 years can still operate it without a lot of work. The simplest example I can think of is MIME (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIME https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIME). It can be embedded in basically any transport type. It can encode anything you want (binary, UTF8, etc). It is very old, stable and well-tested. It is fairly trivial to implement a limited instruction set of. Transport security, authentication, authorization, etc, are nice, but not nearly as important to me as a future-proof interface to my heat pump. Give me the option to enable an admin port and just run a single unsecured connection with a basic dumb text protocol, and I can hack together a client in 30 minutes in any programming language. It's not fancy but it will work forever.
- dminor 4y ago
  I agree on the point of not wanting to end up with a brick due to obsolete software. Note though that heat pumps typically last 10-20 years.
  - oblio 4y ago
    What happens to them after 20 years?
  - blincoln 4y ago
    This is extremely disappointing, given their price point. I've seen an oil furnace still running after 50 years with just basic maintenance. Did it cost 2-5 times as much in inflation-adjusted dollars as a heat pump does now? No.
    - oblio 4y ago
      https://www.evergreenenergy.co.uk/heat-pump-guides/how-long-do-heat-pumps-last/ https://www.evergreenenergy.co.uk/heat-pump-guides/how-long-... I don't see why a heat pump wouldn't run for a long time. I imagine many people want to replace old heat pumps because newer ones are more efficient. But otherwise this is quite old and widely available tech, it should be possible to replace individual components that break down.
seiferteric 4y ago
IMO I would prefer a Bluetooth thermostat that once paired, you don't have to login again. One thing that really annoys me about home "smart" devices is arbitrarily being logged out and having to remember passwords etc. and I don't see a reason I need to be "logged in" to control my thermostat. Also I don't want it to stop working when your servers are down... (had this happen the other day with my garage door opener sigh...) If you want internet connectivity, it should connect to some hub to bridge the Bluetooth to the web account.

stevenpetryk 4y ago

Or the company could at least leave it easy to hack :)

walterbell 4y ago
Implement with a swappable compute module?
- samstave 4y ago
  We need an entire industry of 'appliance based Rpi's to be able to act as modules in a standardly compute plug-in-form factor (just like blades) with a unit preloaded with a config and just swap out inter connects - ich that we have an appliance hub, the solar/whatever input pushes power and the distributor determines where to push or halt the power - with a selector that tells me the input costs, and output draws, such that it can have a system to auto switch to best performance. Honywell missed the mark on the importance of thermostats on the economy.
- whstl 4y ago
  My dream is something equivalent to a Dumb TV + Chromecast.

cmui 4y ago

It's something we'd definitely consider. Is the desire to have thermostat control via any third party? edit - The current plan has been Matter/thread Homekit + Google Home integration. We can expose at least temperature control via this to everyone.

JshWright 4y ago
I think the desire would be a locally accessible API so that anyone could build an integration to it.
mabbo 4y ago
Consider it is as a competitive advantage. An API that is public, well-documented, and easy for other systems to securely integrate with would mean that customers get the integration they want. If someone builds a better way to utilize your system, then you just got value-add on your product at basically zero cost. Amazon can hook Alexa into it. Google can hook their Home thing into it. And whatever comes next, whatever doesn't even exist today, should have an easy time integrating, continuing to add value.
- RicDan 4y ago
  Completely agree on this point. I've worked over half a decade with smart home systems, and it's just so much easier (and cheaper!) to integrate well documented, open APIs (and please make them secure, I have nightmares of all the open, unencrypted UDP based alarm systems) that is purely local. This means we would highly recommend these products even tho we made zero money off them, and customers would actually prefer them as well - it's well beyond the time of people naively buying this stuff, and they know that clouds can just "go offline". What also can't be underestimated is the tinker community. Many people in the smart home business are tinkerers themselfs; create a great product for them and they will inevitably try to use it at their job. But this really isn't only applicable to integrators, really.
AYBABTME 4y ago
Yes, and particularly in a local/LAN/no internet manner. Local push or local pull.
xxpor 4y ago
(not OP, but I also use HA) The important bit is to have an open API that can be connected to from the local network (or via Matter + Thread, etc), and via a cloud. Then anyone can develop a client. This also has benefits in UX: the latency to update is much lower than cloud based polling, since that's almost always rate limited. The closer anything is to the bottom of the chart here, the better. When buying something as expensive as a heat pump, I wouldn't even consider something that isn't at least local polling: https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2016/02/12/classifying-the-internet-of-things/ https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2016/02/12/classifying-th... That being said, I'm not opposed to value add things via cloud services. Want to get the weather via a cloud service, even if that changes the schedule? Totally fine! But ultimate control must be local.

jacquesm 4y ago

Seconded.

0xbadcafebee 4y ago

If I'm gonna invest in a heat pump for the long term, I don't want it committed to any software technology that may be obsolete in 10 years. I want it to use something so dead stupid simple that anything in 50 years can still operate it without a lot of work. The simplest example I can think of is MIME (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIME https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIME). It can be embedded in basically any transport type. It can encode anything you want (binary, UTF8, etc). It is very old, stable and well-tested. It is fairly trivial to implement a limited instruction set of. Transport security, authentication, authorization, etc, are nice, but not nearly as important to me as a future-proof interface to my heat pump. Give me the option to enable an admin port and just run a single unsecured connection with a basic dumb text protocol, and I can hack together a client in 30 minutes in any programming language. It's not fancy but it will work forever.

dminor 4y ago
I agree on the point of not wanting to end up with a brick due to obsolete software. Note though that heat pumps typically last 10-20 years.
- oblio 4y ago
  What happens to them after 20 years?
- blincoln 4y ago
  This is extremely disappointing, given their price point. I've seen an oil furnace still running after 50 years with just basic maintenance. Did it cost 2-5 times as much in inflation-adjusted dollars as a heat pump does now? No.
  - oblio 4y ago
    https://www.evergreenenergy.co.uk/heat-pump-guides/how-long-do-heat-pumps-last/ https://www.evergreenenergy.co.uk/heat-pump-guides/how-long-... I don't see why a heat pump wouldn't run for a long time. I imagine many people want to replace old heat pumps because newer ones are more efficient. But otherwise this is quite old and widely available tech, it should be possible to replace individual components that break down.

seiferteric 4y ago

IMO I would prefer a Bluetooth thermostat that once paired, you don't have to login again. One thing that really annoys me about home "smart" devices is arbitrarily being logged out and having to remember passwords etc. and I don't see a reason I need to be "logged in" to control my thermostat. Also I don't want it to stop working when your servers are down... (had this happen the other day with my garage door opener sigh...) If you want internet connectivity, it should connect to some hub to bridge the Bluetooth to the web account.