6 ms·

"This is such an easy problem to solve" How? If someone uses a fully faked/stolen identity, with a valid SSN / passport # / etc (which every single company is r

"This is such an easy problem to solve" How? If someone uses a fully faked/stolen identity, with a valid SSN / passport # / etc (which every single company is required to check), how do you propose we catch them?

etchalon 4y ago
It's not an easy problem to solve. Anti-immigration advocates have to pretend it is. "Just verify people" is up there with "build a wall".
j16sdiz 4y ago
one way of doing that is government maintains a central registry of employment. This, of course, have many other problems.
- landemva 4y ago
  Th feds already have that in the payroll tax withholding. Investigators could start there for data analysis then make visits to employers.
kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
RealID was supposed to curtail this. They certainly made it hard enough for real citizens to get ID.
- code_duck 4y ago
  Which had the not-surprising side effect of making it difficult for people with less resources to vote.
- Ancapistani 4y ago
  I don't know about Wisconsin, but in my state RealID is entirely optional. When you get a driver's license (or state ID/"Non-driver's license") you have the option to have your fingerprints taken to receive a RealID compliant ID, or not, in which case your ID is valid for only state purposes. I'm a natural-born US citizen, and I opted not to get a RealID-compliant state ID. I have no need for it. I use my driver's license for most things and my passport card when I fly domestic. A RealID-compliant state ID offers me no benefit.
  - kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
    Fingerprints aren't required for RealID. That's some nanny state BS your local government has added on. They aren't even needed for an Enhanced license for N.Am. border crossings.
    - Ancapistani 4y ago
      Yeah, I'm aware of that. The point is that a state-issued RealID provides me with no benefit, so any amount of effort beyond "yeah, sure, I'll check this box" isn't worth it for me.
  - nightpool 4y ago
    Really? The last time I renewed my driver's license, I just got a RealID compliant license automatically, with no fingerprinting involved whatsoever. There wasn't any talk about making it "optional". That sounds like whatever state you're in completely perverted the goals of the RealID program (possibly to sabotage adoption?)
throw93 4y ago
This story is not about fake identity. Company knew they were minors and ignored it. Excerpt from story: “Our investigation found Packers Sanitation Services’ systems flagged some young workers as minors, but the company ignored the flags.”
- nightpool 4y ago
  Yes? I know? That has nothing to do with the claims Nostromo made, that I'm replying to.
nemothekid 4y ago
>how do you propose we catch them? Fine the companies that hire illegal workers. I don't know why so many in this thread have some delusion that the companies 1.) are acting in good faith or 2.) aren't intentionally using illegal immigrants for cheaper labor. Fine the companies and the problem will solve itself. Another poster in this thread mentioned a case where Tyson coached an illegal immigrant. Illegals wont unionize, demand maternity or workers comp; and if they do, you call ICE and pretend you don't know how they showed up.
- mrguyorama 4y ago
  Because there are lots of people on HN that benefit from disgusting things like this, that's why they have to pretend they don't know the solution.
Red_Leaves_Flyy 4y ago
>how do you propose we catch them? Incentives and chilling effects. Automatic 30 days in jail for everyone who oversaw a minor get hired, per day worked. If more than five minors or across multiple managerial departments consider it systemic and send all overseeing managers and their managers to jail for 30 days per minor per shift worked. Strict liability and mandatory minimums are effective against white collar crimes unlike crimes of desperation. Over ten kids and the company should be seized, all management imprisoned and all assets auctioned off. Give the legal employees enhanced unemployment to bridge the disruption to their employment.
- nightpool 4y ago
  I think you may have misread my comment. It had nothing to do with the hiring of minors
  - Red_Leaves_Flyy 4y ago
    TFA is about hiring minors and your comment is about identity verification. My comment is perhaps a bit more specific than yours but as it’s directly related to the subject at hand, is relevant and on topic to your question.
    - nightpool 4y ago
      My question was in response to Nostromo saying "It should be trivial to solve illegal immigrants working in our system and anybody who says it isn't is profiting directly from the problem". Not exactly sure what point you're making by jumping back to the original topic of the article instead

etchalon 4y ago

It's not an easy problem to solve. Anti-immigration advocates have to pretend it is. "Just verify people" is up there with "build a wall".

j16sdiz 4y ago

one way of doing that is government maintains a central registry of employment. This, of course, have many other problems.

landemva 4y ago
Th feds already have that in the payroll tax withholding. Investigators could start there for data analysis then make visits to employers.

kevin_thibedeau 4y ago

RealID was supposed to curtail this. They certainly made it hard enough for real citizens to get ID.

code_duck 4y ago
Which had the not-surprising side effect of making it difficult for people with less resources to vote.
Ancapistani 4y ago
I don't know about Wisconsin, but in my state RealID is entirely optional. When you get a driver's license (or state ID/"Non-driver's license") you have the option to have your fingerprints taken to receive a RealID compliant ID, or not, in which case your ID is valid for only state purposes. I'm a natural-born US citizen, and I opted not to get a RealID-compliant state ID. I have no need for it. I use my driver's license for most things and my passport card when I fly domestic. A RealID-compliant state ID offers me no benefit.
- kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
  Fingerprints aren't required for RealID. That's some nanny state BS your local government has added on. They aren't even needed for an Enhanced license for N.Am. border crossings.
  - Ancapistani 4y ago
    Yeah, I'm aware of that. The point is that a state-issued RealID provides me with no benefit, so any amount of effort beyond "yeah, sure, I'll check this box" isn't worth it for me.
- nightpool 4y ago
  Really? The last time I renewed my driver's license, I just got a RealID compliant license automatically, with no fingerprinting involved whatsoever. There wasn't any talk about making it "optional". That sounds like whatever state you're in completely perverted the goals of the RealID program (possibly to sabotage adoption?)

throw93 4y ago

This story is not about fake identity. Company knew they were minors and ignored it. Excerpt from story: “Our investigation found Packers Sanitation Services’ systems flagged some young workers as minors, but the company ignored the flags.”

nightpool 4y ago
Yes? I know? That has nothing to do with the claims Nostromo made, that I'm replying to.

nemothekid 4y ago

>how do you propose we catch them? Fine the companies that hire illegal workers. I don't know why so many in this thread have some delusion that the companies 1.) are acting in good faith or 2.) aren't intentionally using illegal immigrants for cheaper labor. Fine the companies and the problem will solve itself. Another poster in this thread mentioned a case where Tyson coached an illegal immigrant. Illegals wont unionize, demand maternity or workers comp; and if they do, you call ICE and pretend you don't know how they showed up.

mrguyorama 4y ago
Because there are lots of people on HN that benefit from disgusting things like this, that's why they have to pretend they don't know the solution.

Red_Leaves_Flyy 4y ago

>how do you propose we catch them? Incentives and chilling effects. Automatic 30 days in jail for everyone who oversaw a minor get hired, per day worked. If more than five minors or across multiple managerial departments consider it systemic and send all overseeing managers and their managers to jail for 30 days per minor per shift worked. Strict liability and mandatory minimums are effective against white collar crimes unlike crimes of desperation. Over ten kids and the company should be seized, all management imprisoned and all assets auctioned off. Give the legal employees enhanced unemployment to bridge the disruption to their employment.

nightpool 4y ago
I think you may have misread my comment. It had nothing to do with the hiring of minors
- Red_Leaves_Flyy 4y ago
  TFA is about hiring minors and your comment is about identity verification. My comment is perhaps a bit more specific than yours but as it’s directly related to the subject at hand, is relevant and on topic to your question.
  - nightpool 4y ago
    My question was in response to Nostromo saying "It should be trivial to solve illegal immigrants working in our system and anybody who says it isn't is profiting directly from the problem". Not exactly sure what point you're making by jumping back to the original topic of the article instead