4 ms·

In non farm jobs, No.

sokoloff 4y ago
I was cutting grass for neighbors and a small business lot in the neighborhood at age 13 (and maybe a few weeks before my 13th birthday). I don't know if it was legal or not, but it seemed/seems appropriate to me.
steego 4y ago
Funny you say that: When I was 13, my first real job was at a trap shooting club and it was considered “farm work”. For less than minimum wage, I sat in a tiny concrete building down range from 5 shooters and reloaded a mechanical arm with another clay pigeon every time the other kid (sitting behind the shooters) pressed the button. You never knew when the mechanical arm would go off and sometimes the kid outside would accidentally hit it twice so it would go off when you were reloading it, basically grazing your fingertips. You had to keep your legs straight out for hours because lifting your knees up would mean the mechanical arm would get it. Every once in a while, you’d hear the shot hit the trap house, which only served to remind you to wave your little red flag before you exited the house. This was especially true during the beef and beer shoots.
kelseyfrog 4y ago
The children yearn for the mines.
anonymouskimmer 4y ago
Sure it is. The Federal labor laws only apply to businesses engaged in interstate commerce (individual state laws apply locally). But even then exemptions are listed on page 5 of this non-copypastable PDF: https://www.dol.gov/sites/dolgov/files/WHD/legacy/files/childlabor101.pdf https://www.dol.gov/sites/dolgov/files/WHD/legacy/files/chil... https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/youthrules/young-workers https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/youthrules/young-workers If you are under the age of 14, you are only allowed to do the following jobs: - Deliver newspapers to customers - Babysit on a casual basis - Work as an actor or performer in movies, TV, radio, or theater - Work as a homeworker gathering evergreens and making evergreen wreaths; and - Work for a business owned entirely by your parents as long as you are not employed in mining, manufacturing, or any of the 17 hazardous occupations.
- tarotuser 4y ago
  Public schools have been instituting in "gig work" before that even became a term. I remember in my elementary years (5-11 year olds) that the school would 'force' (peer pressure, competition, punishment of class for you not doing, etc) kids to get fliers of absolute utter garbage merchandise at exorbitant prices, and then go door-to-door selling these items. And the public school would get some unknown kickback for sales. I remember when my parents said no to this, the teacher in class said "Since tarotuser won't sell anything, the class can never get a pizza party". But... as a worse thought, that would indicate that Instacart et al should be able to target any age group, since gig-work is endorsed by the public school system and technically isn't "employment". But we all know better.
- jaywalk 4y ago
  > Work as a homeworker gathering evergreens and making evergreen wreaths I would love to know the history of that incredibly specific exemption.
  - anonymouskimmer 4y ago
    Yeah, I can't find it. My best guess is from the statute itself: https://www.govregs.com/regulations/expand/title29_chapterV_part780_subpartK_subjgrp399_section780.1000 https://www.govregs.com/regulations/expand/title29_chapterV_... > § 780.1001 - General explanatory statement. Workers in rural areas sometimes engage, as a family unit, around the Christmas holidays, in gathering evergreens and making them into wreaths in their homes. Such workers, under well-settled interpretations by the Department of Labor and the courts, have been held to be employees of the firm which purchases the wreaths and furnishes the workers with wire used in making such wreaths. I would guess that back in the day people made wreaths to raise funds for the family to pay for Christmas gifts and celebrations, or maybe for general purposes. This section seems to be from 1972, so yeah, I don't know what was happening in the 60s/70s to promote this exemption. Very much early gig economy though.
- bnralt 4y ago
  Yeah, child actors are often treated horrendously but we as a society still permit it for some reason. Many people have heard about how two children died because of unsafe conditions during the filming of The Twilight Zone movie. What often gets overlooked is that the two children, ages 6 and 7, were being forced to work through the night (the accident happened at 2:30 a.m.)[1]. If it hadn't been for the helicopter accident, no one would have known. [1] https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/how-twilight-zone-the-movie-deaths-changed-hollywood/ https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/how-twilight-zone-the-movie-dea...

I was cutting grass for neighbors and a small business lot in the neighborhood at age 13 (and maybe a few weeks before my 13th birthday). I don't know if it was legal or not, but it seemed/seems appropriate to me.

steego 4y ago

Funny you say that: When I was 13, my first real job was at a trap shooting club and it was considered “farm work”. For less than minimum wage, I sat in a tiny concrete building down range from 5 shooters and reloaded a mechanical arm with another clay pigeon every time the other kid (sitting behind the shooters) pressed the button. You never knew when the mechanical arm would go off and sometimes the kid outside would accidentally hit it twice so it would go off when you were reloading it, basically grazing your fingertips. You had to keep your legs straight out for hours because lifting your knees up would mean the mechanical arm would get it. Every once in a while, you’d hear the shot hit the trap house, which only served to remind you to wave your little red flag before you exited the house. This was especially true during the beef and beer shoots.

kelseyfrog 4y ago

The children yearn for the mines.

anonymouskimmer 4y ago

Sure it is. The Federal labor laws only apply to businesses engaged in interstate commerce (individual state laws apply locally). But even then exemptions are listed on page 5 of this non-copypastable PDF: https://www.dol.gov/sites/dolgov/files/WHD/legacy/files/childlabor101.pdf https://www.dol.gov/sites/dolgov/files/WHD/legacy/files/chil... https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/youthrules/young-workers https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/youthrules/young-workers If you are under the age of 14, you are only allowed to do the following jobs: - Deliver newspapers to customers - Babysit on a casual basis - Work as an actor or performer in movies, TV, radio, or theater - Work as a homeworker gathering evergreens and making evergreen wreaths; and - Work for a business owned entirely by your parents as long as you are not employed in mining, manufacturing, or any of the 17 hazardous occupations.

tarotuser 4y ago
Public schools have been instituting in "gig work" before that even became a term. I remember in my elementary years (5-11 year olds) that the school would 'force' (peer pressure, competition, punishment of class for you not doing, etc) kids to get fliers of absolute utter garbage merchandise at exorbitant prices, and then go door-to-door selling these items. And the public school would get some unknown kickback for sales. I remember when my parents said no to this, the teacher in class said "Since tarotuser won't sell anything, the class can never get a pizza party". But... as a worse thought, that would indicate that Instacart et al should be able to target any age group, since gig-work is endorsed by the public school system and technically isn't "employment". But we all know better.
jaywalk 4y ago
> Work as a homeworker gathering evergreens and making evergreen wreaths I would love to know the history of that incredibly specific exemption.
- anonymouskimmer 4y ago
  Yeah, I can't find it. My best guess is from the statute itself: https://www.govregs.com/regulations/expand/title29_chapterV_part780_subpartK_subjgrp399_section780.1000 https://www.govregs.com/regulations/expand/title29_chapterV_... > § 780.1001 - General explanatory statement. Workers in rural areas sometimes engage, as a family unit, around the Christmas holidays, in gathering evergreens and making them into wreaths in their homes. Such workers, under well-settled interpretations by the Department of Labor and the courts, have been held to be employees of the firm which purchases the wreaths and furnishes the workers with wire used in making such wreaths. I would guess that back in the day people made wreaths to raise funds for the family to pay for Christmas gifts and celebrations, or maybe for general purposes. This section seems to be from 1972, so yeah, I don't know what was happening in the 60s/70s to promote this exemption. Very much early gig economy though.
bnralt 4y ago
Yeah, child actors are often treated horrendously but we as a society still permit it for some reason. Many people have heard about how two children died because of unsafe conditions during the filming of The Twilight Zone movie. What often gets overlooked is that the two children, ages 6 and 7, were being forced to work through the night (the accident happened at 2:30 a.m.)[1]. If it hadn't been for the helicopter accident, no one would have known. [1] https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/how-twilight-zone-the-movie-deaths-changed-hollywood/ https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/how-twilight-zone-the-movie-dea...