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>I really question the narrative that VR is this niche thing no one uses. For gaming or non-gaming? In my circle of acquaintances, I know 2 people that use it

>I really question the narrative that VR is this niche thing no one uses. For gaming or non-gaming? In my circle of acquaintances, I know 2 people that use it for gaming (one individual is an avid "Elite Dangerous" player, which is a perfect use-case for VR). I don't know anyone that uses VR (or AR) for non-gaming purposes. This is what Facebook/Meta was trying to push. The problem for VR, specifically, is that there is a sizable population of people that experience nausea when using it even for relatively small amounts of time. I'm in that group. So even if I wanted to, I would not use, for example, VR productivity or collaboration apps, just because of the nausea. It's still a niche product.

giobox 4y ago
I also feel the VR enthusiast community rarely has an honest conversation about the size and scale of the nausea problem. I'm not sure its just a case of throw ever increasing fidelity at the picture and audio etc - I think its the fundamental issue of walking motion being perceived by eyes, but inner ear balance indicate you are stationary. Even at 600fps and 20k of resolution per eye this disconnect between visually perceived motion and actual motion is still going to exist. AR obviously doesn't have these issues and I think will one day be great, but VR could have this problem for decades.
- tolstoshev 4y ago
  There's two technologies that help a lot, both strange: https://www.purdue.edu/newsroom/releases/2015/Q1/virtual-nose-may-reduce-simulator-sickness-in-video-games.html https://www.purdue.edu/newsroom/releases/2015/Q1/virtual-nos... https://www.vmocion.com/technology.html https://www.vmocion.com/technology.html
  - giobox 4y ago
    Thanks for the links. If something like that 2nd link actually works and can stimulate the inner ear to remove the problem entirely, that would be an incredible solution and easy to build into a headset band.
  - el_don_almighty 4y ago
    seasickness... I want this research applied to seasick sailors. Imagine if you could simply put on a headset and it provided cues to your inner ear and brain that helped more quickly adapt life at sea This would be awesome
- orange_fritter 4y ago
  I haven't used VR much but a few friends discuss the unsettling post-VR experience of depersonalization/unreality after you take the headset off. One guy isn't too "sensitive" to anything in general so it was surprising to hear him say he just can't enjoy VR because he knows he will feel weird after.
- halgir 4y ago
  Anecdotally, raw performance helps a lot. I tried the old Oculus dev kit almost 10 years ago, and it left me unbalanced, nauseated, and generally feeling sick for the rest of that day. Now I regularly use my Quest 2 with zero ill effect. The nausea kicks in immediately without tracking in stationary mode, though.
  - giobox 4y ago
    I've owned dev kit and still have a Quest 2, and don't think the motion sickness has materially improved that much at all, despite all the other improvements. Same experience for me with the latest Valve Index.
    - halgir 4y ago
      Do you use it regularly? If so, have you just accepted the motion sickness as a cost of doing business (and/or gaming)?
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
MikeTheRocker 4y ago
I'm sorry to hear discomfort keeps you from using VR. I'm curious how you concluded this? In my experience it's unfortunately all too common for people to try low end products like Google Cardboard and write off spatial mediums like AR/VR altogether, when a high end headset like a Varjo XR3 is such a dramatically different (better) experience.
- macspoofing 4y ago
  >I'm curious how you concluded this? In my experience it's unfortunately all too common for people to try low end products like Google Cardboard and write off spatial mediums like AR/VR altogether Let's set aside AR because I do think there is potential there, and I never had any issues with AR. Granted, I also haven't experience an actually good AR app. For VR, I've tried a bunch headsets, from the original Oculus, to the crappy Google Cardboard, to the Meta Quest 1/2 headsets, to the PS VR2, and some newish versions of VIVE. To be fair, none of them extensively, but here's what I found: - if the VR app has you merely looking around, while standing still or allows 'natural' motion (where I physically walk around a space), after about an hour, I'll get a low-level nausea that will make me feel like crap for the next few hours. It's manageable to use VR every once in a while in this way, but I would never use it day-in/day-out because of the after-effects. - if the VR app requires motion via controller - forget it. I'm not even sure I could handle 10 minutes of that. Obviously, I haven't done an exhaustive study on headsets and VR apps, so maybe the new high-end headsets mitigate the nausea issues to the extent where it would not cause discomfort - but so far that hasn't been the case.
atchoo 4y ago
> an avid "Elite Dangerous" player, which is a perfect use-case for VR I wouldn't call it perfect. It's a brilliant first experience for things like docking which does feel mind blowing - true fantasty fulfillment type thing. However, after that it's better as a non-VR game. It's very grindy with repetitive actions, lots of time spent in menus and then long waits either as travel time or for missions/trades to repopulate. It's also a game where you want to refer to external web tools for trade routes, navigation info, planning ship upgrades etc. All of this means it's worst type of game for enduring long stints in a headset while nothing is happening. Most of the game is best suited to a small window on your desktop while you watch TV with a web browser and a drink.

giobox 4y ago

I also feel the VR enthusiast community rarely has an honest conversation about the size and scale of the nausea problem. I'm not sure its just a case of throw ever increasing fidelity at the picture and audio etc - I think its the fundamental issue of walking motion being perceived by eyes, but inner ear balance indicate you are stationary. Even at 600fps and 20k of resolution per eye this disconnect between visually perceived motion and actual motion is still going to exist. AR obviously doesn't have these issues and I think will one day be great, but VR could have this problem for decades.

tolstoshev 4y ago
There's two technologies that help a lot, both strange: https://www.purdue.edu/newsroom/releases/2015/Q1/virtual-nose-may-reduce-simulator-sickness-in-video-games.html https://www.purdue.edu/newsroom/releases/2015/Q1/virtual-nos... https://www.vmocion.com/technology.html https://www.vmocion.com/technology.html
- giobox 4y ago
  Thanks for the links. If something like that 2nd link actually works and can stimulate the inner ear to remove the problem entirely, that would be an incredible solution and easy to build into a headset band.
- el_don_almighty 4y ago
  seasickness... I want this research applied to seasick sailors. Imagine if you could simply put on a headset and it provided cues to your inner ear and brain that helped more quickly adapt life at sea This would be awesome
orange_fritter 4y ago
I haven't used VR much but a few friends discuss the unsettling post-VR experience of depersonalization/unreality after you take the headset off. One guy isn't too "sensitive" to anything in general so it was surprising to hear him say he just can't enjoy VR because he knows he will feel weird after.
halgir 4y ago
Anecdotally, raw performance helps a lot. I tried the old Oculus dev kit almost 10 years ago, and it left me unbalanced, nauseated, and generally feeling sick for the rest of that day. Now I regularly use my Quest 2 with zero ill effect. The nausea kicks in immediately without tracking in stationary mode, though.
- giobox 4y ago
  I've owned dev kit and still have a Quest 2, and don't think the motion sickness has materially improved that much at all, despite all the other improvements. Same experience for me with the latest Valve Index.
  - halgir 4y ago
    Do you use it regularly? If so, have you just accepted the motion sickness as a cost of doing business (and/or gaming)?
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]

MikeTheRocker 4y ago

I'm sorry to hear discomfort keeps you from using VR. I'm curious how you concluded this? In my experience it's unfortunately all too common for people to try low end products like Google Cardboard and write off spatial mediums like AR/VR altogether, when a high end headset like a Varjo XR3 is such a dramatically different (better) experience.

macspoofing 4y ago
>I'm curious how you concluded this? In my experience it's unfortunately all too common for people to try low end products like Google Cardboard and write off spatial mediums like AR/VR altogether Let's set aside AR because I do think there is potential there, and I never had any issues with AR. Granted, I also haven't experience an actually good AR app. For VR, I've tried a bunch headsets, from the original Oculus, to the crappy Google Cardboard, to the Meta Quest 1/2 headsets, to the PS VR2, and some newish versions of VIVE. To be fair, none of them extensively, but here's what I found: - if the VR app has you merely looking around, while standing still or allows 'natural' motion (where I physically walk around a space), after about an hour, I'll get a low-level nausea that will make me feel like crap for the next few hours. It's manageable to use VR every once in a while in this way, but I would never use it day-in/day-out because of the after-effects. - if the VR app requires motion via controller - forget it. I'm not even sure I could handle 10 minutes of that. Obviously, I haven't done an exhaustive study on headsets and VR apps, so maybe the new high-end headsets mitigate the nausea issues to the extent where it would not cause discomfort - but so far that hasn't been the case.

atchoo 4y ago

> an avid "Elite Dangerous" player, which is a perfect use-case for VR I wouldn't call it perfect. It's a brilliant first experience for things like docking which does feel mind blowing - true fantasty fulfillment type thing. However, after that it's better as a non-VR game. It's very grindy with repetitive actions, lots of time spent in menus and then long waits either as travel time or for missions/trades to repopulate. It's also a game where you want to refer to external web tools for trade routes, navigation info, planning ship upgrades etc. All of this means it's worst type of game for enduring long stints in a headset while nothing is happening. Most of the game is best suited to a small window on your desktop while you watch TV with a web browser and a drink.