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National parliament ratification is also not a mere formality. The EU cannot afford to be divided at this moment, or have the mood in member states turned again

by rickmb 15y ago

National parliament ratification is also not a mere formality. The EU cannot afford to be divided at this moment, or have the mood in member states turned against it even more. Ironically, rejection by the EU parliament would save the EU a lot of internal headaches. Which is why you could very well see members of parties that support ACTA on the national level reject it in the EU parliament. Political games: they can tell the US and their copyright mafia friends they've signed it, and the rejection by EU parliament was out of their control...

skrebbel 15y ago
I really hope you're right about all this. Still wondering why there's no SOPA-style outbreak in any EU country but Poland. Maybe because we all, like me, just sit and wonder?
- Historiopode 15y ago
  This is not surprising, since ACTA is still months away from being effective and news concerning its dangers and shortcomings are only now starting to be visible. However, there is also another, perhaps major, issue: the tech sector is just not as large or impactful as in the US (or, at least, this is the public perception): no community hub such as Silicon Valley, very few dominant businesses, very few startups and VCs capable of flexing their muscles. I fear that if we are unable to get major US companies to protest ACTA, such legislation might simply slide past unseen by most.
  - skrebbel 15y ago
    Most EU countries have a multiparty system with somewhat less buyable politicians than the US has in exchange, though. This might help. After all, why else did it take so long for ACTA-ish laws to show up at all? Or maybe I'm just naive (I like to believe that most of our politicians are selfish and stupid, but not corrupt) and missing something.
- hastur 15y ago
  There are no outbreaks in other EU countries, because the media don't write/talk about ACTA. So the societies are completely ignorant about ACTA's existence. In Poland, some mainstream media had the balls to talk about ACTA, which coincided with high-profile "hacking" attacks on govt websites. This lead to a sudden spread of public awareness. And when the kids heard that free downloading of mp3s, movies and porn is threatened, they took to the streets. (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3502200 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3502200) And how did the media learn about ACTA in the first place? That's still a bit of a riddle to me. Certainly some active NGOs, like the Panoptykon Foundation, and enlightened individuals, like Piotr Waglowski (a lawyer of some fame in the digital community) have contributed by constantly pesking the govt about ACTA.
  - skrebbel 15y ago
    Well, for instance in the Netherlands, we have a lobby organisation called Bits of Freedom, who are basically an EFF but less Linuxy. They are usually rather capable of causing a somewhat decent ruckus when nasty stuff happens, and they usually quickly get the support of at least the liberals and the far-right-conservatives (who are pretty consistently in favour of free and open internet though nobody understands why). Still, nothing about ACTA. Thanks for laying out the Polish case for me though.
    - hastur 15y ago
      Obviously, Bits Of Freedom didn't bother to do much about ACTA.
      - rickmb 15y ago
        A digital civil rights movement that prefers secretive backroom politics over public activism is not exactly the right organisation to protest secretive backroom politics... This is typical for BoF. "They" decide what's important, behind closed doors. They are no different from ruling political class, which is both their strength (when it comes to lobbying) and their weakness (when it comes to representing the people who's rights they claim to stand up for).
- handelaar 15y ago
  > there's no SOPA-style outbreak in any EU country but Poland. Greetings from Ireland, where we've spent the whole week kicking the government's arse over a nasty bit of Record-Company-Felching, and a Dáil debate was just forced onto the agenda not 15 minutes ago during an emergency discussion. http://stopsopaireland.com http://stopsopaireland.com Oh, and I note that the largest consumer-facing site in the country just did this: http://boards.ie http://boards.ie
  - nfg 15y ago
    As a matter of interest what have boards done? I'm abroad on a mobile and it's displaying as normal for me?
    - Macha 15y ago
      It displays the same message that is in this thread as an overlay, blocking out the home page: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056530490 http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056530490
hastur 15y ago
I never said national ratification is a mere formality. In fact, you can count on a huge debate in Poland (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3502200 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3502200). I was just saying - even if a national parliament rejects ACTA, 90% of ACTA will still affect that country as a EU member. And yeah, I'm very hopeful too about the EU Parliament.

by rickmb 15y ago

skrebbel 15y ago

I really hope you're right about all this. Still wondering why there's no SOPA-style outbreak in any EU country but Poland. Maybe because we all, like me, just sit and wonder?

Historiopode 15y ago
This is not surprising, since ACTA is still months away from being effective and news concerning its dangers and shortcomings are only now starting to be visible. However, there is also another, perhaps major, issue: the tech sector is just not as large or impactful as in the US (or, at least, this is the public perception): no community hub such as Silicon Valley, very few dominant businesses, very few startups and VCs capable of flexing their muscles. I fear that if we are unable to get major US companies to protest ACTA, such legislation might simply slide past unseen by most.
- skrebbel 15y ago
  Most EU countries have a multiparty system with somewhat less buyable politicians than the US has in exchange, though. This might help. After all, why else did it take so long for ACTA-ish laws to show up at all? Or maybe I'm just naive (I like to believe that most of our politicians are selfish and stupid, but not corrupt) and missing something.
hastur 15y ago
There are no outbreaks in other EU countries, because the media don't write/talk about ACTA. So the societies are completely ignorant about ACTA's existence. In Poland, some mainstream media had the balls to talk about ACTA, which coincided with high-profile "hacking" attacks on govt websites. This lead to a sudden spread of public awareness. And when the kids heard that free downloading of mp3s, movies and porn is threatened, they took to the streets. (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3502200 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3502200) And how did the media learn about ACTA in the first place? That's still a bit of a riddle to me. Certainly some active NGOs, like the Panoptykon Foundation, and enlightened individuals, like Piotr Waglowski (a lawyer of some fame in the digital community) have contributed by constantly pesking the govt about ACTA.
- skrebbel 15y ago
  Well, for instance in the Netherlands, we have a lobby organisation called Bits of Freedom, who are basically an EFF but less Linuxy. They are usually rather capable of causing a somewhat decent ruckus when nasty stuff happens, and they usually quickly get the support of at least the liberals and the far-right-conservatives (who are pretty consistently in favour of free and open internet though nobody understands why). Still, nothing about ACTA. Thanks for laying out the Polish case for me though.
  - hastur 15y ago
    Obviously, Bits Of Freedom didn't bother to do much about ACTA.
    - rickmb 15y ago
      A digital civil rights movement that prefers secretive backroom politics over public activism is not exactly the right organisation to protest secretive backroom politics... This is typical for BoF. "They" decide what's important, behind closed doors. They are no different from ruling political class, which is both their strength (when it comes to lobbying) and their weakness (when it comes to representing the people who's rights they claim to stand up for).
handelaar 15y ago
> there's no SOPA-style outbreak in any EU country but Poland. Greetings from Ireland, where we've spent the whole week kicking the government's arse over a nasty bit of Record-Company-Felching, and a Dáil debate was just forced onto the agenda not 15 minutes ago during an emergency discussion. http://stopsopaireland.com http://stopsopaireland.com Oh, and I note that the largest consumer-facing site in the country just did this: http://boards.ie http://boards.ie
- nfg 15y ago
  As a matter of interest what have boards done? I'm abroad on a mobile and it's displaying as normal for me?
  - Macha 15y ago
    It displays the same message that is in this thread as an overlay, blocking out the home page: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056530490 http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056530490

hastur 15y ago

I never said national ratification is a mere formality. In fact, you can count on a huge debate in Poland (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3502200 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3502200). I was just saying - even if a national parliament rejects ACTA, 90% of ACTA will still affect that country as a EU member. And yeah, I'm very hopeful too about the EU Parliament.