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The headline is misleading. There are still several national parliaments that need to ratify this (there appears to be a majority against in the Netherlands at

by rickmb 15y ago

The headline is misleading. There are still several national parliaments that need to ratify this (there appears to be a majority against in the Netherlands at the moment), and it has to go through the EU parliament. The EU parliament is notoriously allergic to these kind of secret backroom shenanigans and corporate manipulations and is eager to prove its democratic value. This is an excellent opportunity to flex the little bit of political muscle it has.

hastur 15y ago
The title is not exactly misleading. ACTA is first signed by the executive branches (foreign ministers or ambassadors), and this is what happened today in Tokyo for most EU nations. Then ACTA will be ratified by the EU Parliament (i.e. the legislative branch). Then ACTA will be ratified by national Parliaments. (Where necessary - most likely in all EU countries. A little different story in U.S., where Obama can just put it into law by executive order, because treaties that don't change U.S. law don't need to be ratified by Congress.) The ratification in EU Parliament is what really counts, because 80-90% of ACTA text applies to EU law, and only a fraction applies to national law. (The latter primarily with regards to criminal prosecutions, which obviously are strictly national jurisdiction.)
- rickmb 15y ago
  National parliament ratification is also not a mere formality. The EU cannot afford to be divided at this moment, or have the mood in member states turned against it even more. Ironically, rejection by the EU parliament would save the EU a lot of internal headaches. Which is why you could very well see members of parties that support ACTA on the national level reject it in the EU parliament. Political games: they can tell the US and their copyright mafia friends they've signed it, and the rejection by EU parliament was out of their control...
  - skrebbel 15y ago
    I really hope you're right about all this. Still wondering why there's no SOPA-style outbreak in any EU country but Poland. Maybe because we all, like me, just sit and wonder?
    - Historiopode 15y ago
      This is not surprising, since ACTA is still months away from being effective and news concerning its dangers and shortcomings are only now starting to be visible. However, there is also another, perhaps major, issue: the tech sector is just not as large or impactful as in the US (or, at least, this is the public perception): no community hub such as Silicon Valley, very few dominant businesses, very few startups and VCs capable of flexing their muscles. I fear that if we are unable to get major US companies to protest ACTA, such legislation might simply slide past unseen by most.
      - skrebbel 15y ago
        Most EU countries have a multiparty system with somewhat less buyable politicians than the US has in exchange, though. This might help. After all, why else did it take so long for ACTA-ish laws to show up at all? Or maybe I'm just naive (I like to believe that most of our politicians are selfish and stupid, but not corrupt) and missing something.
    - hastur 15y ago
      There are no outbreaks in other EU countries, because the media don't write/talk about ACTA. So the societies are completely ignorant about ACTA's existence. In Poland, some mainstream media had the balls to talk about ACTA, which coincided with high-profile "hacking" attacks on govt websites. This lead to a sudden spread of public awareness. And when the kids heard that free downloading of mp3s, movies and porn is threatened, they took to the streets. (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3502200 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3502200) And how did the media learn about ACTA in the first place? That's still a bit of a riddle to me. Certainly some active NGOs, like the Panoptykon Foundation, and enlightened individuals, like Piotr Waglowski (a lawyer of some fame in the digital community) have contributed by constantly pesking the govt about ACTA.
  - hastur 15y ago
    I never said national ratification is a mere formality. In fact, you can count on a huge debate in Poland (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3502200 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3502200). I was just saying - even if a national parliament rejects ACTA, 90% of ACTA will still affect that country as a EU member. And yeah, I'm very hopeful too about the EU Parliament.

by rickmb 15y ago

hastur 15y ago

The title is not exactly misleading. ACTA is first signed by the executive branches (foreign ministers or ambassadors), and this is what happened today in Tokyo for most EU nations. Then ACTA will be ratified by the EU Parliament (i.e. the legislative branch). Then ACTA will be ratified by national Parliaments. (Where necessary - most likely in all EU countries. A little different story in U.S., where Obama can just put it into law by executive order, because treaties that don't change U.S. law don't need to be ratified by Congress.) The ratification in EU Parliament is what really counts, because 80-90% of ACTA text applies to EU law, and only a fraction applies to national law. (The latter primarily with regards to criminal prosecutions, which obviously are strictly national jurisdiction.)

rickmb 15y ago
National parliament ratification is also not a mere formality. The EU cannot afford to be divided at this moment, or have the mood in member states turned against it even more. Ironically, rejection by the EU parliament would save the EU a lot of internal headaches. Which is why you could very well see members of parties that support ACTA on the national level reject it in the EU parliament. Political games: they can tell the US and their copyright mafia friends they've signed it, and the rejection by EU parliament was out of their control...
- skrebbel 15y ago
  I really hope you're right about all this. Still wondering why there's no SOPA-style outbreak in any EU country but Poland. Maybe because we all, like me, just sit and wonder?
  - Historiopode 15y ago
    This is not surprising, since ACTA is still months away from being effective and news concerning its dangers and shortcomings are only now starting to be visible. However, there is also another, perhaps major, issue: the tech sector is just not as large or impactful as in the US (or, at least, this is the public perception): no community hub such as Silicon Valley, very few dominant businesses, very few startups and VCs capable of flexing their muscles. I fear that if we are unable to get major US companies to protest ACTA, such legislation might simply slide past unseen by most.
    - skrebbel 15y ago
      Most EU countries have a multiparty system with somewhat less buyable politicians than the US has in exchange, though. This might help. After all, why else did it take so long for ACTA-ish laws to show up at all? Or maybe I'm just naive (I like to believe that most of our politicians are selfish and stupid, but not corrupt) and missing something.
  - hastur 15y ago
    There are no outbreaks in other EU countries, because the media don't write/talk about ACTA. So the societies are completely ignorant about ACTA's existence. In Poland, some mainstream media had the balls to talk about ACTA, which coincided with high-profile "hacking" attacks on govt websites. This lead to a sudden spread of public awareness. And when the kids heard that free downloading of mp3s, movies and porn is threatened, they took to the streets. (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3502200 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3502200) And how did the media learn about ACTA in the first place? That's still a bit of a riddle to me. Certainly some active NGOs, like the Panoptykon Foundation, and enlightened individuals, like Piotr Waglowski (a lawyer of some fame in the digital community) have contributed by constantly pesking the govt about ACTA.
- hastur 15y ago
  I never said national ratification is a mere formality. In fact, you can count on a huge debate in Poland (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3502200 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3502200). I was just saying - even if a national parliament rejects ACTA, 90% of ACTA will still affect that country as a EU member. And yeah, I'm very hopeful too about the EU Parliament.