4 ms·

Those idle energy usage stats look pretty damned good. If the numbers are correct, they're beating Apple Silicon.

avidphantasm 4y ago
But only after spending how long tuning things. This is what keeps me on macOS. I’m not a 19yo with time to compile kernels and tweak my XFree86 config anymore. Maybe when I retire in 20 years…
- avidphantasm 4y ago
  I should mention that I like what Framework is doing and have been tempted to buy one. Don’t mean to take anything away from them. It’s just not for me right now.
- tankerkiller 4y ago
  It looks like a lot of the "tuning" was specific to Debian. I did not have any of the issues with things like the touchpad, scaling, etc. with Ubuntu or Pop_OS. And most of the power related tweaks are the same tweaks most people running linux have to do anyway for laptops because the Distro's almost never come configured with the libraries required and setup.
  - starkparker 4y ago
    Ditto with Fedora. The 6.y kernel line fixes a lot of problems that aren't Framework-specific but generally Intel and Alder Lake issues. (A lot of those problems, configs, and tuning, even on Debian, aren't relevant on the 11th-gen Framework.)
- input_sh 4y ago
  It's author's choice to run Debian on a laptop that provides first-party OS. It'd be like blaming Apple for Asahi Linux issues, but with even less of a substance (at least Debian doesn't have to reverse engineer Pop! OS improvements).
- heavyset_go 4y ago
  Buy a machine with first class Linux support the same way you'd buy a machine with first class macOS support if you want to use macOS but don't want the hackintosh experience. System76, for example, ships laptops with custom power management daemons that tune things for you automatically, and provide you with power saving/performance profile buttons in the system tray if you want control. GNOME ships with a similar power management daemon that handles things automatically, as well. I'm also in the "I don't want to tweak my computer" camp, and in my experience, modern Linux is much more sane and stable than it was in the XFree86 days.
  - esskay 4y ago
    >Buy a machine with first class Linux support the same way you'd buy a machine with first class macOS support Genuine question: Does such a machine exist that isn't a heavy lump of plastic with a very stupidly positioned fan intake under the laptop right where your knee would be?
    - heavyset_go 4y ago
      Dell and Lenovo apparently ship laptops without bottom air intake.
lhl 4y ago
Idle power consumption is good, but sadly as soon as you get into near-idle/light usage (eg, listening to Spotify in the background, or even running a bash script echoing to your terminal, the power jumps a lot (I place the blame mainly on Intel 12th Gen). In my experience, despite also having extremely long idle battery life, for regular web browsing, watching YouTube, light typing tasks, my 12th-gen Framework tends to get about 5h of battery life (I tested a number of scenarios including seeing how little load was required to reduce battery life here for those that are interested: https://github.com/lhl/linuxlaptops/wiki/2022-Framework-Laptop-DIY-Edition-12th-Gen-Intel-Batch-1#near-idle-performance https://github.com/lhl/linuxlaptops/wiki/2022-Framework-Lapt...) On Notebookcheck's standardized WiFi v1.3 test, the Framework gets 447 minutes while an 8C MBA M2 gets 910 minutes (just over double). On my most recent trip, I ended up throwing the towel and getting an MBA M2 since my Framework's battery life really wasn't cutting it and for my use cases, MBA gets over double the runtime, making it a lot more suitable for all-day travel days/transcontinental flights, media offloads, etc.

But only after spending how long tuning things. This is what keeps me on macOS. I’m not a 19yo with time to compile kernels and tweak my XFree86 config anymore. Maybe when I retire in 20 years…

avidphantasm 4y ago
I should mention that I like what Framework is doing and have been tempted to buy one. Don’t mean to take anything away from them. It’s just not for me right now.
tankerkiller 4y ago
It looks like a lot of the "tuning" was specific to Debian. I did not have any of the issues with things like the touchpad, scaling, etc. with Ubuntu or Pop_OS. And most of the power related tweaks are the same tweaks most people running linux have to do anyway for laptops because the Distro's almost never come configured with the libraries required and setup.
- starkparker 4y ago
  Ditto with Fedora. The 6.y kernel line fixes a lot of problems that aren't Framework-specific but generally Intel and Alder Lake issues. (A lot of those problems, configs, and tuning, even on Debian, aren't relevant on the 11th-gen Framework.)
input_sh 4y ago
It's author's choice to run Debian on a laptop that provides first-party OS. It'd be like blaming Apple for Asahi Linux issues, but with even less of a substance (at least Debian doesn't have to reverse engineer Pop! OS improvements).
heavyset_go 4y ago
Buy a machine with first class Linux support the same way you'd buy a machine with first class macOS support if you want to use macOS but don't want the hackintosh experience. System76, for example, ships laptops with custom power management daemons that tune things for you automatically, and provide you with power saving/performance profile buttons in the system tray if you want control. GNOME ships with a similar power management daemon that handles things automatically, as well. I'm also in the "I don't want to tweak my computer" camp, and in my experience, modern Linux is much more sane and stable than it was in the XFree86 days.
- esskay 4y ago
  >Buy a machine with first class Linux support the same way you'd buy a machine with first class macOS support Genuine question: Does such a machine exist that isn't a heavy lump of plastic with a very stupidly positioned fan intake under the laptop right where your knee would be?
  - heavyset_go 4y ago
    Dell and Lenovo apparently ship laptops without bottom air intake.

lhl 4y ago

Idle power consumption is good, but sadly as soon as you get into near-idle/light usage (eg, listening to Spotify in the background, or even running a bash script echoing to your terminal, the power jumps a lot (I place the blame mainly on Intel 12th Gen). In my experience, despite also having extremely long idle battery life, for regular web browsing, watching YouTube, light typing tasks, my 12th-gen Framework tends to get about 5h of battery life (I tested a number of scenarios including seeing how little load was required to reduce battery life here for those that are interested: https://github.com/lhl/linuxlaptops/wiki/2022-Framework-Laptop-DIY-Edition-12th-Gen-Intel-Batch-1#near-idle-performance https://github.com/lhl/linuxlaptops/wiki/2022-Framework-Lapt...) On Notebookcheck's standardized WiFi v1.3 test, the Framework gets 447 minutes while an 8C MBA M2 gets 910 minutes (just over double). On my most recent trip, I ended up throwing the towel and getting an MBA M2 since my Framework's battery life really wasn't cutting it and for my use cases, MBA gets over double the runtime, making it a lot more suitable for all-day travel days/transcontinental flights, media offloads, etc.