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Agree on greed and education, disagree on everything else. At least the US still has programmers - in Europe nobody wants to program anymore - too much work. T
by quonn 4y ago
Agree on greed and education, disagree on everything else.
At least the US still has programmers - in Europe nobody wants to program anymore - too much work. The big car companies create software centres in Munich and hire thousands on Indians on visas there, because there are no Europeans available.
I have recently talked to many young people about ChatGPT and their conclusion is that technical skills are irrelevant and they should focus only on soft skills.
Well - soft skills are the most basic level - it's just what makes us humans. Some day the non-european people doing the work will figure out that they can do the managing and talking and buzz wording just as good - but that we can't do their work because we have given up on learning the skills.
- jen20 4y agoPerhaps there are fewer Europeans available because they are doing the same thing in the US: making actual money instead of the pittance offered by employers in HCOL cities like Munich?
- mciancia 4y ago...what I think you are mixing up "nobody want to program in Europe" with "nobody wants to program for peanuts in Europe"
- quonn 4y ago100k or more are not peanuts in Europe. But it's true that this may be part of the problem.
- wil421 4y agoI’ve seen a lot more sub €100k programmers respond with salaries on HN and Reddit than ones close to €100k. A quick google search says the average is 65k in Berlin and around 60k in the UK. London is probably higher for sure.
- quonn 4y agoIn Munich 90k+ seems to be common. Berlin on the other hand has lower costs of living.
- wil421 4y agoThat would explain it, I should’ve looked at Munich. I thought Berlin would be higher.
- zirgs 4y agoYou can get 50-60k EUR in Eastern Europe these days if you know what you're doing. Sure, it's not a FAANG level salary, but cost of living is low here. So I would definitely not migrate to London if they offered 60k.
- DeathArrow 4y agoYeah but 60k is not 100k.
- zirgs 4y agoYou can buy an apartment for less than 100k in those places though.
- DeathArrow 4y agoI am making far less than 100k.
- wil421 4y ago> I have recently talked to many young people about ChatGPT and their conclusion is that technical skills are irrelevant and they should focus only on soft skills. This is a hilarious take. I can reason with a junior programmer and walk through the steps to get a result. I can’t lead of team of ChatGPT bots. The only thing going for ChatGPT is it’s hubris.
- quonn 4y agoIt's not my take - I'm just describing what people have told me. I completely disagree with those people which is sort of my point.