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The biggest mask off moment was when Russia targeted civilian electricity and heating infrastructure in the middle of the winter in regions with Russian-speakin

by 0xDEF 4y ago

The biggest mask off moment was when Russia targeted civilian electricity and heating infrastructure in the middle of the winter in regions with Russian-speaking majority like Kharkiv and Odessa.

alkonaut 4y ago
I think indiscriminate bombing of civilian housing that has taken place for a year now is worse. You can always make a so-so argument that a power plant has some military importance, even if the civilian suffering is terrible. But a 10 story residential building filled with civilians hasn't even go that bad excuse.
capableweb 4y ago
Or you know, invading a neighboring country in the first place? Not sure what part of the mask isn't already off at that point.
- cduzz 4y ago
  It's like the old "Mission Impossible" reveal where there are nested masks: 1. we'll come in and replace you're idiot government goons with our idiot government goons. 2. we'll come in and punish/kill all the people you don't like. 3. we'll come in and clean things up; maybe have to kill some of people too. Sorry, but it'll be worth it after we finish! 4. looks like we were actually going to come in and kill lots of people indiscriminately, take lots of stuff and your children too. If you don't like it you know where to send a complaint. 5. yeah, we're actually just going to kill everyone here and start over, even the ones who look like they're cooperating. That's actually always been the plan; thanks for your help. The people of Ukraine seem to know the stakes, and have for a while. In fact, it seems like most of the "ex soviet sphere of influence" countries are aware of what goes on in lubyanka. In a democracy (to some extent) the government serves the people; in an autocracy the people and everything else in the country exist only to execute and glorify the whims of the leader.
PeterisP 4y ago
Yes, underlining the point that the west (and western media) should never equate "Russian speaking" people and regions with "Russia-supporting" or "wants to be ruled by Russia".
- throw2311 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - meepmorp 4y ago
    I don't quite understand what you're getting at. The current president of Ukraine was born and raised in a Russian speaking part of the country and Russian is his first language.
    - throw2311 4y ago
      [flagged]
      - kangda123 4y ago
        I mean isn't Russian propaganda claiming that most western government are made up of Nazis at this point?
        throw2311 4y ago
        [flagged]
      - linuxftw 4y ago
        The people on here absolutely will not, for any reason, consider both sides of the situation. They literally think Ukraine did nothing wrong.
        sorenjan 4y ago
        Did Ukraine invade Russia? Was Ukraine a threat to Russia in any way? Don't believe Kremlin propaganda, if there's one thing you can trust about Russian diplomats it's that they lie, even when they know that you know they're lying. It's been well known for decades. It's official doctrine and is called maskirovka.
kofejnik 4y ago
What if they only targeted Ukrainian-speaking regions? Would that have been more or less barbaric? btw, the mask off moment was in 2014, when “polite men” occupied crimea Fuck Russia, at any rate.
- PeterisP 4y ago
  It would have been just as barbaric, but then that would be in line with Russian stated goals of the war i.e. to "protect the Russian-speaking people from oppression", and Russian terror-bombing of these civilians exposes this as obvious lie.
t344344 4y ago
Ukraine transports most of military equipment and soldiers by electric trains. So it is is also military infrastructure. And Russians only targeted trafostations and substations, those are relatively easy to fix and replace, not power plants themselves. Compare it to how West bombed everything in Iraq before invasion...
ClapperHeid 4y ago
>The biggest mask off moment was when Russia targeted civilian electricity and heating infrastructure... Yeah. What bastards they are. Thank god we'd never stoop to those levels: https://www.hrw.org/reports/2003/usa1203/4.5.htm#_ftnref99 https://www.hrw.org/reports/2003/usa1203/4.5.htm#_ftnref99 ---- >Electrical Power Facilities >The United States targeted electrical power distribution facilities, but not generation facilities, throughout Iraq, according to a senior CENTCOM official. He told Human Rights Watch that instead of using explosive ordnance, the majority of the attacks were carried out with carbon fiber bombs designed to incapacitate temporarily rather than to destroy.100 Nevertheless, some of the attacks on electrical power distribution facilities in Iraq are likely to have a serious and long-term detrimental impact on the civilian population. >Electrical power was out for thirty days after U.S. strikes on two transformer facilities in al-Nasiriyya.101 Al-Nasiriyya 400 kV Electrical Power Transformer Station was attacked on March 22 at 6:00 a.m. using three U.S. Navy Tomahawk cruise missiles outfitted with variants of the BLU-114/B graphite bombs.102 These dispense submunitions with spools of carbon fiber filaments that short-circuit transformers and other high voltage equipment upon contact. ---- Oh, wait. That's "whataboutism" isn't it? That handy defence which means you're not allowed to point that the accuser has committed exactly the same crimes as the accused.
- rocket_surgeron 4y ago
  >That handy defence which means you're not allowed to point that the accuser has committed exactly the same crimes as the accused. What accuser? Neither the Economist nor the commenter to which you replied is the United States of America. I think. Maybe the commenter is the literal United States of America? edit: Your spelling of "defense" and the person to which you replied's comment history seems to indicate that a non-American is accusing a non-American of being an American. How droll.
  - ClapperHeid 4y ago
    >seems to indicate that a non-American is accusing a non-American of being an American.... Aye. But there's so many American poodles in Europe, it's hard to tell the difference. Love the downvotes by the way. If only downvoting a fact you don't want to hear could somehow make it not true any more! I also didnt mention the US's strafing of the retreating Iraqui army during the Gulf War either [0]. Who can forget the photos of the destroyed columns of vehicles, heading back to Iraq and the soldiers burned to death in their retreating trucks? It'll be interesting to see the howls of outrage from the Americans [and poodles] if Ukraine withdraws from Bakhmut and the Russians shell their retreating forces. Talk about pots and kettles! [0] https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/highway-death-in-pictures-1991/ https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/highway-death-in-pictures-1... [0] https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/dont-photograph-people-like-mom-will-think-war-see-tv-gulf-war-1991/ https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/dont-photograph-people-like...

by 0xDEF 4y ago

The biggest mask off moment was when Russia targeted civilian electricity and heating infrastructure in the middle of the winter in regions with Russian-speaking majority like Kharkiv and Odessa.

alkonaut 4y ago

I think indiscriminate bombing of civilian housing that has taken place for a year now is worse. You can always make a so-so argument that a power plant has some military importance, even if the civilian suffering is terrible. But a 10 story residential building filled with civilians hasn't even go that bad excuse.

capableweb 4y ago

Or you know, invading a neighboring country in the first place? Not sure what part of the mask isn't already off at that point.

cduzz 4y ago
It's like the old "Mission Impossible" reveal where there are nested masks: 1. we'll come in and replace you're idiot government goons with our idiot government goons. 2. we'll come in and punish/kill all the people you don't like. 3. we'll come in and clean things up; maybe have to kill some of people too. Sorry, but it'll be worth it after we finish! 4. looks like we were actually going to come in and kill lots of people indiscriminately, take lots of stuff and your children too. If you don't like it you know where to send a complaint. 5. yeah, we're actually just going to kill everyone here and start over, even the ones who look like they're cooperating. That's actually always been the plan; thanks for your help. The people of Ukraine seem to know the stakes, and have for a while. In fact, it seems like most of the "ex soviet sphere of influence" countries are aware of what goes on in lubyanka. In a democracy (to some extent) the government serves the people; in an autocracy the people and everything else in the country exist only to execute and glorify the whims of the leader.

PeterisP 4y ago

Yes, underlining the point that the west (and western media) should never equate "Russian speaking" people and regions with "Russia-supporting" or "wants to be ruled by Russia".

throw2311 4y ago
[flagged]
- meepmorp 4y ago
  I don't quite understand what you're getting at. The current president of Ukraine was born and raised in a Russian speaking part of the country and Russian is his first language.
  - throw2311 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - kangda123 4y ago
      I mean isn't Russian propaganda claiming that most western government are made up of Nazis at this point?
      - throw2311 4y ago
        [flagged]
    - linuxftw 4y ago
      The people on here absolutely will not, for any reason, consider both sides of the situation. They literally think Ukraine did nothing wrong.
      - sorenjan 4y ago
        Did Ukraine invade Russia? Was Ukraine a threat to Russia in any way? Don't believe Kremlin propaganda, if there's one thing you can trust about Russian diplomats it's that they lie, even when they know that you know they're lying. It's been well known for decades. It's official doctrine and is called maskirovka.

kofejnik 4y ago

What if they only targeted Ukrainian-speaking regions? Would that have been more or less barbaric? btw, the mask off moment was in 2014, when “polite men” occupied crimea Fuck Russia, at any rate.

PeterisP 4y ago
It would have been just as barbaric, but then that would be in line with Russian stated goals of the war i.e. to "protect the Russian-speaking people from oppression", and Russian terror-bombing of these civilians exposes this as obvious lie.

t344344 4y ago

Ukraine transports most of military equipment and soldiers by electric trains. So it is is also military infrastructure. And Russians only targeted trafostations and substations, those are relatively easy to fix and replace, not power plants themselves. Compare it to how West bombed everything in Iraq before invasion...

ClapperHeid 4y ago

>The biggest mask off moment was when Russia targeted civilian electricity and heating infrastructure... Yeah. What bastards they are. Thank god we'd never stoop to those levels: https://www.hrw.org/reports/2003/usa1203/4.5.htm#_ftnref99 https://www.hrw.org/reports/2003/usa1203/4.5.htm#_ftnref99 ---- >Electrical Power Facilities >The United States targeted electrical power distribution facilities, but not generation facilities, throughout Iraq, according to a senior CENTCOM official. He told Human Rights Watch that instead of using explosive ordnance, the majority of the attacks were carried out with carbon fiber bombs designed to incapacitate temporarily rather than to destroy.100 Nevertheless, some of the attacks on electrical power distribution facilities in Iraq are likely to have a serious and long-term detrimental impact on the civilian population. >Electrical power was out for thirty days after U.S. strikes on two transformer facilities in al-Nasiriyya.101 Al-Nasiriyya 400 kV Electrical Power Transformer Station was attacked on March 22 at 6:00 a.m. using three U.S. Navy Tomahawk cruise missiles outfitted with variants of the BLU-114/B graphite bombs.102 These dispense submunitions with spools of carbon fiber filaments that short-circuit transformers and other high voltage equipment upon contact. ---- Oh, wait. That's "whataboutism" isn't it? That handy defence which means you're not allowed to point that the accuser has committed exactly the same crimes as the accused.

rocket_surgeron 4y ago
>That handy defence which means you're not allowed to point that the accuser has committed exactly the same crimes as the accused. What accuser? Neither the Economist nor the commenter to which you replied is the United States of America. I think. Maybe the commenter is the literal United States of America? edit: Your spelling of "defense" and the person to which you replied's comment history seems to indicate that a non-American is accusing a non-American of being an American. How droll.
- ClapperHeid 4y ago
  >seems to indicate that a non-American is accusing a non-American of being an American.... Aye. But there's so many American poodles in Europe, it's hard to tell the difference. Love the downvotes by the way. If only downvoting a fact you don't want to hear could somehow make it not true any more! I also didnt mention the US's strafing of the retreating Iraqui army during the Gulf War either [0]. Who can forget the photos of the destroyed columns of vehicles, heading back to Iraq and the soldiers burned to death in their retreating trucks? It'll be interesting to see the howls of outrage from the Americans [and poodles] if Ukraine withdraws from Bakhmut and the Russians shell their retreating forces. Talk about pots and kettles! [0] https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/highway-death-in-pictures-1991/ https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/highway-death-in-pictures-1... [0] https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/dont-photograph-people-like-mom-will-think-war-see-tv-gulf-war-1991/ https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/dont-photograph-people-like...