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Why were you jumping lights though, is that not causing yourself more danger? I've been a cyclist, motorcyclist and a driver. I've never jumped a red light on

Why were you jumping lights though, is that not causing yourself more danger? I've been a cyclist, motorcyclist and a driver. I've never jumped a red light on a bike. In the past 10 years of living in London I've seen hundreds of cyclists running red lights long after they've changed, or before they change back. I've seen plenty of motor vehicles run through a yellow-red, but never a long-red light (until yesterday actually). Just yesterday I did see a taxi cross a junction on a red as it was about to change back to green, but while still red (how impatient can you be)? I don't cycle anymore, I was hit by cars 3 times when I wasn't at fault before I moved to London, and decided not to take my chances there. I'm always aware of cyclists and motorcyclists around me and will go out of my way to accommodate them, too many road users are blind to them, but I can't agree with red light running; if someone comes across the junction while its red for you because you decided to cross, and kills you, it's very much your fault, but they'll take the blame, or at least the burden, and you'll be dead. As for police fishing operations, I've seen them sitting on one-way streets ticketing cyclists and scooter users, which personally I think is a bit silly (especially in the case of this particular street).

ljf 4y ago
To be clear, I would rarely jump if the lights had just changed Red - more if I was approaching and the crossing was clear - at a pedestrian crossing if everyone who wanted to cross had passed, or at a cross roads type junction where there were no cars in motion, or their lights had just turned red, but ours hadn't yet turned green. Also if I was doing a left turn at a light though that was rarer given my route. Very rarely, if there was a jam and traffic was stationary across a crossing I would go, but again that wasn't a common one. Mainly I did it as it meant I could keep my speed and stay away from cars - if you come to a stop at a light (at the front of the queue) then you are accelerating from the front of the pack as the cars are itching to get by you - this way when they caught up with me and passed me at 30 (if they were lucky) I was already doing 20. As I said, I stopped relatively soon in my commuting career and just got better at holding road position, and at my own fitness so stopping and starting had less of an affect on me. Also slowly over the year traffic seemed to get more bike aware and less hectic. But I do understand why people do it, even if it does make all cyclists look bad. I was 'knocked off' (though not actually off) my bike 3 times, and all three was thankfully scary but not painful. Once I taxi passenger opened their door into the bike lane and nearly doored me, I was able to just skid into the door and shout so loud the passenger didn't actually get out so wasn't hurt, and twice drivers just turned left into my lane in 2 (or 3) lane traffic - luckily our speeds were similar - once I was able to keep myself up by hanging from the vans wing mirror, and once I was just knocked a bit. Horrible - but all helped me take the road space I needed and actively stop cars overtaking me when it was not safe (and inversely pulling to the side when possible to let more timid drivers pass).
_Wintermute 4y ago
> I've seen plenty of motor vehicles run through a yellow-red, but never a long-red light I really don't think you're paying attention. I cycle daily with a GoPro in London, I initially reported every driver obviously ignoring red lights to the Met through their online portal, but it was several a week and took up too much of my time.
nxkwkfhik 4y ago
The problem with waiting at lights is, unless you are quick, cars will try and overtake from lights. This will usually be at a crossing, where there are more likely to be tight spots that cars want to get into before you. This means more dangerous situations for the cyclist. This is known to city planners, and when you have bicycle and car lights at a crossing, the bicycle light will go Green before the car lights. This is taken to the extreme when joining Parliament Square from Millbank. That’s why cyclist jump red lights: The required infrastructure is not there to keep them safe. This has lead to a general disregarding of the rules (a British trait c.f. speed limits on motorways), which has in turn lead to people doing things that obviously are not in the interest of their safety: riding through a red light when there are pedestrians crossing, especially bad when it’s just a two way crossing.
- alias_neo 4y ago
  That's unfortunate. I never really thought about this when I was cycling. I'd stop at the front of traffic, middle of the road. As a driver, I don't see the need to accelerate any faster than a reasonably fit cyclist who's willing to stop at the front of traffic (the slower ones do not typically). I have no issue waiting for a cyclist to cross the junction and get to where there is sufficient space for me to pass, but I suppose, in London in particular, most drivers aren't as courteous (I hated being a driver in and around London let alone a pedestrian or cyclist). I moved away recently, and I've really noticed, now that I use electric-scooter hire during my commute, that drivers where I am now are much more courteous.
  - nxkwkfhik 4y ago
    I would actually consider myself fortunate. I’ve been cycling in London for 20 years and sometimes view it as a form of extreme sport, like running with the bulls in Spain
cassianoleal 4y ago
> Why were you jumping lights though, is that not causing yourself more danger? The reality is, as usual, not without nuance. A 2009 study showed a 14.5% decrease in bicyclist injuries after the passage of the original Idaho Stop law (though did not otherwise tie the decrease to the law). A Delaware state-run study of the "Delaware Yield" law (allowing cyclists to treat stop signs as yield signs) concluded that it reduced injuries at stop-sign controlled intersections by 23%. A study of rolling stops in Seattle determined that "results support the theoretical assertion that bicyclists are capable of making safe decisions regarding rolling stop", while a 2013 survey of stop as yield in Colorado localities where it is legal reported no increase in crashes.[17] Another study done in Chicago showed that compliance with stop signs and stop lights by cyclists was low when cross-traffic was not present, but that most were still performing an Idaho Stop; and therefore "enforcing existing rules at these intersections would seem arbitrary and [capricious]". [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop#Safety https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop#Safety

ljf 4y ago

To be clear, I would rarely jump if the lights had just changed Red - more if I was approaching and the crossing was clear - at a pedestrian crossing if everyone who wanted to cross had passed, or at a cross roads type junction where there were no cars in motion, or their lights had just turned red, but ours hadn't yet turned green. Also if I was doing a left turn at a light though that was rarer given my route. Very rarely, if there was a jam and traffic was stationary across a crossing I would go, but again that wasn't a common one. Mainly I did it as it meant I could keep my speed and stay away from cars - if you come to a stop at a light (at the front of the queue) then you are accelerating from the front of the pack as the cars are itching to get by you - this way when they caught up with me and passed me at 30 (if they were lucky) I was already doing 20. As I said, I stopped relatively soon in my commuting career and just got better at holding road position, and at my own fitness so stopping and starting had less of an affect on me. Also slowly over the year traffic seemed to get more bike aware and less hectic. But I do understand why people do it, even if it does make all cyclists look bad. I was 'knocked off' (though not actually off) my bike 3 times, and all three was thankfully scary but not painful. Once I taxi passenger opened their door into the bike lane and nearly doored me, I was able to just skid into the door and shout so loud the passenger didn't actually get out so wasn't hurt, and twice drivers just turned left into my lane in 2 (or 3) lane traffic - luckily our speeds were similar - once I was able to keep myself up by hanging from the vans wing mirror, and once I was just knocked a bit. Horrible - but all helped me take the road space I needed and actively stop cars overtaking me when it was not safe (and inversely pulling to the side when possible to let more timid drivers pass).

_Wintermute 4y ago

> I've seen plenty of motor vehicles run through a yellow-red, but never a long-red light I really don't think you're paying attention. I cycle daily with a GoPro in London, I initially reported every driver obviously ignoring red lights to the Met through their online portal, but it was several a week and took up too much of my time.

nxkwkfhik 4y ago

The problem with waiting at lights is, unless you are quick, cars will try and overtake from lights. This will usually be at a crossing, where there are more likely to be tight spots that cars want to get into before you. This means more dangerous situations for the cyclist. This is known to city planners, and when you have bicycle and car lights at a crossing, the bicycle light will go Green before the car lights. This is taken to the extreme when joining Parliament Square from Millbank. That’s why cyclist jump red lights: The required infrastructure is not there to keep them safe. This has lead to a general disregarding of the rules (a British trait c.f. speed limits on motorways), which has in turn lead to people doing things that obviously are not in the interest of their safety: riding through a red light when there are pedestrians crossing, especially bad when it’s just a two way crossing.

alias_neo 4y ago
That's unfortunate. I never really thought about this when I was cycling. I'd stop at the front of traffic, middle of the road. As a driver, I don't see the need to accelerate any faster than a reasonably fit cyclist who's willing to stop at the front of traffic (the slower ones do not typically). I have no issue waiting for a cyclist to cross the junction and get to where there is sufficient space for me to pass, but I suppose, in London in particular, most drivers aren't as courteous (I hated being a driver in and around London let alone a pedestrian or cyclist). I moved away recently, and I've really noticed, now that I use electric-scooter hire during my commute, that drivers where I am now are much more courteous.
- nxkwkfhik 4y ago
  I would actually consider myself fortunate. I’ve been cycling in London for 20 years and sometimes view it as a form of extreme sport, like running with the bulls in Spain

cassianoleal 4y ago

> Why were you jumping lights though, is that not causing yourself more danger? The reality is, as usual, not without nuance. A 2009 study showed a 14.5% decrease in bicyclist injuries after the passage of the original Idaho Stop law (though did not otherwise tie the decrease to the law). A Delaware state-run study of the "Delaware Yield" law (allowing cyclists to treat stop signs as yield signs) concluded that it reduced injuries at stop-sign controlled intersections by 23%. A study of rolling stops in Seattle determined that "results support the theoretical assertion that bicyclists are capable of making safe decisions regarding rolling stop", while a 2013 survey of stop as yield in Colorado localities where it is legal reported no increase in crashes.[17] Another study done in Chicago showed that compliance with stop signs and stop lights by cyclists was low when cross-traffic was not present, but that most were still performing an Idaho Stop; and therefore "enforcing existing rules at these intersections would seem arbitrary and [capricious]". [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop#Safety https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop#Safety