5 ms·

So why are only gay priests outed in this way? Straight priests on a dating app would be equally offensive to the spirit in the sky.

by psiops 4y ago

mock-possum 4y ago
> why are only gay priests outed in this way you know why.
timwaagh 4y ago
a relative of mine has a husband who was supposed to join the clergy. He just dropped out of the program and married her. Now he's not a priest but a parochial worker. Might be that it is harder to find straight priests because it is possible to just drop out, marry and live a very respectable life. Now if you drop out and come out as gay well that would be a lot more difficult in that kind of community.
- bombolo 4y ago
  Catholic priests can't quit being priests. It's a permanent-sin status like divorce.
  - NoZebra120vClip 4y ago
    False on both counts!!! First, divorce is a one-and-done sin. Someone who finalizes a divorce and confesses it is in a state of grace, much as someone who ate steak last Friday and confessed.it. Now, a laicized priest is in no sin either, unless he attempts to hold himself out as a priest still. A man with a rescript from the Holy See is typically freed from all obligations of the clerical state, and that can and will often include celibacy, so a laicized priest is perfectly eligible for marriage, and perhaps a really good catch.
    - bombolo 4y ago
      Do you have a source on this? Wikipedia is disagreeing with you https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimissione_dallo_stato_clericale https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimissione_dallo_stato_clerica...
      - NoZebra120vClip 4y ago
        I'm not sure where you see disagreement. It's not a personal sin for the priest to be dismissed. See #3, by request. Oh sure, a priest may be dismissed as a penalty, for something he did, namely sins such as abuse, but the dismissal itself is not sinful like procuring a divorce. The OP compared laicization to a divorce, and it's nothing like that at all. Think of it this way: it's not a crime to go to prison, but one will certainly go to prison as the result of a crime.
  - Tpt 4y ago
    But before becoming priest there is a quite long training program (often 5-6 years). Dropping out of it is quite common. And even after becoming a priest, they can asked to be relieved for their obligations, including celibacy. But in this case they would have to find an other job.
  - nickd2001 4y ago
    Er, as a Catholic I'd be inclined to dispute this. I know a few ex-priests. One of whom has been happily married for years. Another became a C of E minister and also got married. Another left the priesthood for 17 yrs then eventually came back. My understanding is, its intended to be a lifelong commitment, but it doesn't always work out. A marriage can be annulled in the church if it is thought that one of both parties failed to fully understand what they were promising to each other or fully enter into the promise being a true commitment. That could be the case with ordaining a priest too. As well as the fact that being a priest is an extremely hard job as well as the celibacy requirement so some people come to the conclusion they are unable to fulfil the role properly.
ulfw 4y ago
"Eighty per cent of priests working at the Vatican are gay, although not necessarily sexually active, it is claimed in the book, In the Closet of the Vatican." https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/12/four-in-five-vatican-priests-are-gay-book-claims https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/12/four-in-five-v...
Alan_Dillman 4y ago
There aren't enough Catholic priests to go around anyway. So the priests are often hopping back and forth between parishes, figuratively and actually. So its no real surprise they don't want to go after the straight ones, and yet, they must figure blowing off a few toes won't hurt too much.
boomboomsubban 4y ago
The ones doing the outing are an independent group using their own money. They're choosing to target gay priests for their own reasons.
- NoZebra120vClip 4y ago
  If they are Catholic, they are by no means independent. If the bishop doesn't like what they say/do, they won't be Catholic much longer.
  - boomboomsubban 4y ago
    While a bishop could arbitrarily excommunicate them, unless they've committed am obvious sin the Church is not going to invite a PR disaster by kicking out super rich members. This group is free to police only gay priests if that's their prerogative, and it'd still be an independent group using their own money.
    - NoZebra120vClip 4y ago
      I'm not talking about excommunication. Also, that penalty doesn't make an organization "non Catholic". I'm talking about the Church's right to revoke the term "Catholic" which is not infrequently invoked, for example against RealCatholicTV and the National Catholic Reporter. It's not excommunication, just a representation and naming issue. And I think the term you want is "financially autonomous" because no Catholic individual or group is "independent" unless they are schismatic.
      - boomboomsubban 4y ago
        I'm unsure of the Church's right to the brand "Catholic." You may be right there. The "no Catholic is independent" is fairly ridiculous popery. Catholic's can have their own priorities and opinions seperate from the Church. Most do.
        4y ago
nickd2001 4y ago
Seems to me its possible the priesthood attracts a disproportionate amount of gay men, in which case , not following the celibacy rule is more commonly happening in gay rather than straight relationships? In which case people trying to catch priests not being celibate are going to find "richer pickings" on gay apps. (Sure its still likely driven by homophobia, and its still a horrible thing to do). Basically, many straight men wouldn't even consider the priesthood as they'd think celibacy is impossible and/or undesirable for them. For gay men I'd think its a different calculation. Historically, and still in many societies today, its been considered "unacceptable" to be gay. Therefore, if you're gay, what are you gonna do if you can't be openingly in a gay relationship? In that case, the priesthood might be a safe haven of sorts either if (a) they have a strong faith, some calling to be a priest, and think celibacy is not asking that much given they cannot openly have the relationships that are natural for them, or (b) its tacitly known that there are other gay men in the priesthood, and there are underground relationships going on. As a Catholic, I've met priest(s) that I'd be unsurprised to hear were gay, although, no suggestion they weren't being celibate, and its of no-one else's business IMHO (judge not lest thy be judged). I also heard a story of someone who went to Rome to train to be a priest then left in disgust when basically propositioned by men who were also training to be priests. His disgust was not as I understand from homophobia, but rather along the lines that they were basically using the seminary as a place for finding gay partners , rather than training to serve others as priest , in other words their motivation was completely wrong, and they had no apparent intention to follow celibacy.
petodo 4y ago
I guess because pedo priest abusing altar boys makes for worse publicity than priest dating adult woman and it's double sin (since homosexuality ain't allowed besides sex outside marriage).

So why are only gay priests outed in this way? Straight priests on a dating app would be equally offensive to the spirit in the sky.

by psiops 4y ago

So why are only gay priests outed in this way? Straight priests on a dating app would be equally offensive to the spirit in the sky.

mock-possum 4y ago

> why are only gay priests outed in this way you know why.

timwaagh 4y ago

a relative of mine has a husband who was supposed to join the clergy. He just dropped out of the program and married her. Now he's not a priest but a parochial worker. Might be that it is harder to find straight priests because it is possible to just drop out, marry and live a very respectable life. Now if you drop out and come out as gay well that would be a lot more difficult in that kind of community.

bombolo 4y ago
Catholic priests can't quit being priests. It's a permanent-sin status like divorce.
- NoZebra120vClip 4y ago
  False on both counts!!! First, divorce is a one-and-done sin. Someone who finalizes a divorce and confesses it is in a state of grace, much as someone who ate steak last Friday and confessed.it. Now, a laicized priest is in no sin either, unless he attempts to hold himself out as a priest still. A man with a rescript from the Holy See is typically freed from all obligations of the clerical state, and that can and will often include celibacy, so a laicized priest is perfectly eligible for marriage, and perhaps a really good catch.
  - bombolo 4y ago
    Do you have a source on this? Wikipedia is disagreeing with you https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimissione_dallo_stato_clericale https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimissione_dallo_stato_clerica...
    - NoZebra120vClip 4y ago
      I'm not sure where you see disagreement. It's not a personal sin for the priest to be dismissed. See #3, by request. Oh sure, a priest may be dismissed as a penalty, for something he did, namely sins such as abuse, but the dismissal itself is not sinful like procuring a divorce. The OP compared laicization to a divorce, and it's nothing like that at all. Think of it this way: it's not a crime to go to prison, but one will certainly go to prison as the result of a crime.
- Tpt 4y ago
  But before becoming priest there is a quite long training program (often 5-6 years). Dropping out of it is quite common. And even after becoming a priest, they can asked to be relieved for their obligations, including celibacy. But in this case they would have to find an other job.
- nickd2001 4y ago
  Er, as a Catholic I'd be inclined to dispute this. I know a few ex-priests. One of whom has been happily married for years. Another became a C of E minister and also got married. Another left the priesthood for 17 yrs then eventually came back. My understanding is, its intended to be a lifelong commitment, but it doesn't always work out. A marriage can be annulled in the church if it is thought that one of both parties failed to fully understand what they were promising to each other or fully enter into the promise being a true commitment. That could be the case with ordaining a priest too. As well as the fact that being a priest is an extremely hard job as well as the celibacy requirement so some people come to the conclusion they are unable to fulfil the role properly.

ulfw 4y ago

"Eighty per cent of priests working at the Vatican are gay, although not necessarily sexually active, it is claimed in the book, In the Closet of the Vatican." https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/12/four-in-five-vatican-priests-are-gay-book-claims https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/12/four-in-five-v...

Alan_Dillman 4y ago

There aren't enough Catholic priests to go around anyway. So the priests are often hopping back and forth between parishes, figuratively and actually. So its no real surprise they don't want to go after the straight ones, and yet, they must figure blowing off a few toes won't hurt too much.

boomboomsubban 4y ago

The ones doing the outing are an independent group using their own money. They're choosing to target gay priests for their own reasons.

NoZebra120vClip 4y ago
If they are Catholic, they are by no means independent. If the bishop doesn't like what they say/do, they won't be Catholic much longer.
- boomboomsubban 4y ago
  While a bishop could arbitrarily excommunicate them, unless they've committed am obvious sin the Church is not going to invite a PR disaster by kicking out super rich members. This group is free to police only gay priests if that's their prerogative, and it'd still be an independent group using their own money.
  - NoZebra120vClip 4y ago
    I'm not talking about excommunication. Also, that penalty doesn't make an organization "non Catholic". I'm talking about the Church's right to revoke the term "Catholic" which is not infrequently invoked, for example against RealCatholicTV and the National Catholic Reporter. It's not excommunication, just a representation and naming issue. And I think the term you want is "financially autonomous" because no Catholic individual or group is "independent" unless they are schismatic.
    - boomboomsubban 4y ago
      I'm unsure of the Church's right to the brand "Catholic." You may be right there. The "no Catholic is independent" is fairly ridiculous popery. Catholic's can have their own priorities and opinions seperate from the Church. Most do.
      - 4y ago

nickd2001 4y ago

Seems to me its possible the priesthood attracts a disproportionate amount of gay men, in which case , not following the celibacy rule is more commonly happening in gay rather than straight relationships? In which case people trying to catch priests not being celibate are going to find "richer pickings" on gay apps. (Sure its still likely driven by homophobia, and its still a horrible thing to do). Basically, many straight men wouldn't even consider the priesthood as they'd think celibacy is impossible and/or undesirable for them. For gay men I'd think its a different calculation. Historically, and still in many societies today, its been considered "unacceptable" to be gay. Therefore, if you're gay, what are you gonna do if you can't be openingly in a gay relationship? In that case, the priesthood might be a safe haven of sorts either if (a) they have a strong faith, some calling to be a priest, and think celibacy is not asking that much given they cannot openly have the relationships that are natural for them, or (b) its tacitly known that there are other gay men in the priesthood, and there are underground relationships going on. As a Catholic, I've met priest(s) that I'd be unsurprised to hear were gay, although, no suggestion they weren't being celibate, and its of no-one else's business IMHO (judge not lest thy be judged). I also heard a story of someone who went to Rome to train to be a priest then left in disgust when basically propositioned by men who were also training to be priests. His disgust was not as I understand from homophobia, but rather along the lines that they were basically using the seminary as a place for finding gay partners , rather than training to serve others as priest , in other words their motivation was completely wrong, and they had no apparent intention to follow celibacy.

petodo 4y ago

I guess because pedo priest abusing altar boys makes for worse publicity than priest dating adult woman and it's double sin (since homosexuality ain't allowed besides sex outside marriage).