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Catholic Group Spends Millions on Dating App Data to Out Gay Priests

61 points by petodo 4y ago

justinclift 4y ago
Doesn't that behaviour make this specific "Catholic Laity and Clergy for Renewal" group a "hate group"? So it should be possible to outlaw them, throw their members in jail, and so on?
- boomboomsubban 4y ago
  Being a hate group isn't illegal.
- sneak 4y ago
  Hate groups are (and should be) legal (just like "hate speech") until and unless their members, you know, actually break the law. We don't believe in guilt by association in the USA, and freedom of association is constitutionally protected.
  - justinclift 4y ago
    > ... actually break the law. Ahhh. Kind of thought they had, as it seems like a case of (digital) stalking and harassment, clearly targetting a group of people based upon their LGBTQ status and religious affiliation.
    - sneak 4y ago
      No, trafficking in personal data is largely still legal in the US.
mock-possum 4y ago
these comments need some HEAVY moderation. can't believe some of what I'm reading here.
NoZebra120vClip 4y ago
I would be completely unsurprised if there were more than a few chaste clerics on these dating apps, and they were fully (secretly) authorized to use the clandestine social networks to provide compassionate ministry to LGBTQ and HIV-positive individuals, and "outing" them completely destroys their ability to serve where they are most needed.
- mantas 4y ago
  Or just chasing some girls. Too many jokes about catholic priests having good time with their housemaids. Young cleric visits a seasoned priest. After the visit, priest can't find his utensils. Thus he mails him: - I don't want to claim that you stole precious utensils. But after your visit I couldn't find them anymore! The young cleric replies: - I don't want to claim that you sleep with your housemaid. But had you slept in your bed, you'd know that utensils are there.
  - NoZebra120vClip 4y ago
    Tasteless and bigoted joke
    - ClapperHeid 4y ago
      >...joke about honest men I guess you've never heard of the many paedophile priest scandals then?
      - JesusLovesEwe 4y ago
        It would be a lot more fun if we could make similar jokes about pedophilia in the Muslim and Jewish communities - where it's arguably far more widespread and tolerated. That we can't reveals an agenda.
        ClapperHeid 4y ago
        >It would be a lot more fun if we could make similar jokes about pedophilia in the Muslim and Jewish communities... Oh. I agree with you there. Do you know any good ones?
mantas 4y ago
Just a reminder that Catholic priests are forbidden to have any family or romantic relationships.
- psiops 4y ago
  So why are only gay priests outed in this way? Straight priests on a dating app would be equally offensive to the spirit in the sky.
  - mock-possum 4y ago
    > why are only gay priests outed in this way you know why.
  - timwaagh 4y ago
    a relative of mine has a husband who was supposed to join the clergy. He just dropped out of the program and married her. Now he's not a priest but a parochial worker. Might be that it is harder to find straight priests because it is possible to just drop out, marry and live a very respectable life. Now if you drop out and come out as gay well that would be a lot more difficult in that kind of community.
    - bombolo 4y ago
      Catholic priests can't quit being priests. It's a permanent-sin status like divorce.
      - NoZebra120vClip 4y ago
        False on both counts!!! First, divorce is a one-and-done sin. Someone who finalizes a divorce and confesses it is in a state of grace, much as someone who ate steak last Friday and confessed.it. Now, a laicized priest is in no sin either, unless he attempts to hold himself out as a priest still. A man with a rescript from the Holy See is typically freed from all obligations of the clerical state, and that can and will often include celibacy, so a laicized priest is perfectly eligible for marriage, and perhaps a really good catch.
favaq 4y ago
[flagged]
- exe34 4y ago
  Do you believe there is a difference between the words gay and pedophile?
- Eisenstein 4y ago
  Sorry but what does this have to do with pedophiles? These are grown men meeting other men.
  - NoZebra120vClip 4y ago
    Correct; the sexual abuse scandal chiefly involves pederasty, not pedophilia, which is super-rare and occurs with the same rarity among clergy as it does in the general population.
    - defrost 4y ago
      Sure .. if by "super-rare" you actually mean common-place and the norm at Christian Brother Institutions for orphaned boys. https://kelsolawyers.com/au/paedophile_offenders/brother-keaney-bindoon/ https://kelsolawyers.com/au/paedophile_offenders/brother-kea... https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-39078652 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-39078652 NB: These are just the orphanages in a single Australian State - if you'd care to read the various lengthy Royal Commission reports you can find such abuse by Catholic Priests was widespread across the country.
      - NoZebra120vClip 4y ago
        Yes, it's tragic, and unfortunately, there are homosexual men who seek access to young boys via a "vocation", same as any who would seek access through the foster care system, pediatric medicine, teaching, coaching youth, Boy Scouts. The list is endless. The thing that can be done is organizational vigilance, by making all aware of the signs and methods of reporting, and removing barriers such as shame or retaliation.
rl3 4y ago
>Between 2017 and early 2020, Grindr was selling precise location data to ad brokers. Well, that's quite scummy. Tends to enable bad actors in the first place. In January 2016, Grindr announced that it had sold a 60% stake in the company for $93 million to a Chinese video game development firm, Kunlun Tech Co Ltd (formerly Beijing Kunlun Tech Co Ltd). In January 2018, Kunlun purchased the remainder of the company for $152 million. [0] Wasn't exactly the best steward for such a platform. [1][3[4] But hey, at least the founder feels bad about it. [2] I was about to suggest that something which amounts to a giant blackmail database is surely a significant national security risk, and further research indicates that it actually changed hands again for that reason. [3][4] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grindr https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grindr [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_China [2] https://www.queerty.com/grindr-founder-joel-simkhai-believes-created-monster-now-wants-slay-dragon-20221103 https://www.queerty.com/grindr-founder-joel-simkhai-believes... [3] https://techcrunch.com/2020/03/06/grindr-sold-china-national-security/ https://techcrunch.com/2020/03/06/grindr-sold-china-national... [4] https://www.theverge.com/interface/2019/3/28/18285274/grindr-national-security-cfius-china-kunlun-military https://www.theverge.com/interface/2019/3/28/18285274/grindr...
- luckylion 4y ago
  Selling data on your users sounds like a pretty average move for tech startups though, the connection to "they did it because China discriminates against LGBT" is pretty far-fetched, especially since they still had a minority position when that was happening. I expect they would've done the same if it had been a SF company that would've bought 60% of it in 2016.
  - rl3 4y ago
    >... "they did it because China discriminates against LGBT" is pretty far-fetched ... I agree; that's not what I was trying to say, and I'm sure the primary motivator was money. You're correct, other dating apps did and still do sell data. [0] The point I was trying to make is that American consumers are already regarded as barely human from a privacy perspective by our own corporations. It gets worse from there (TikTok), and when you add a certain country's poor LGBTQ human rights record, it's just icing on the cake. By that point they really don't care. --- Match Group, for all their evil, currently states: Match Group does not sell the personal information of our users to any third party. [1] Then in the next paragraph: In particular, we do NOT use sensitive data, such as sexual orientation, racial or ethnic origins, religion, or precise geolocation data for advertising. [1] I like the "precise" part. Sounds like selling personal information to me, but I'm not a lawyer. [0] https://www.npr.org/2020/01/14/796427696/study-grindr-tindr-and-other-apps-share-sensitive-personal-data-with-advertisers https://www.npr.org/2020/01/14/796427696/study-grindr-tindr-... [1] https://mtch.com/privacy https://mtch.com/privacy
mattigames 4y ago
Just the bay area had more than 700 lawsuits for child abuse filled against Catholic church employees in the last 3 years, so this catholic group and similar ones maybe should redirect their efforts into outing child molesters first. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcbayarea.com/investigations/lawsuits-name-hundreds-of-newly-accused-catholic-clergy-and-lay-employees-across-northern-ca/3163119/%3famp=1 https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcbayarea.com/investigatio...
- MrBuddyCasino 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - Eisenstein 4y ago
    Do you actually believe that homosexual men have more access to children than heterosexual men and that they are more prone to pedophilia? Why don't you think about this logically. Even if they overrepresented pedophiles by say 50% compared to hetero men and hetero men are 1% pedophiles, than means as 10% of the population you are looking at 0.5 * 0.1 = = 0.05 = 0.5%. Now say that homosexuals don't usually have access to children like men who have families do, but lets be generous and say that 50% of those men get unsupervised access to children and are practicing child molesters. That makes 0.25% of the population. Let's compare that to hetero men. At 90% of male population and 1% pedos that makes 0.9% of the population. Now, straight men have easier access to kids because, what do you know, they tend to help make them. So, lets say 75% even on the low side here makes 0.675% of active child molesters. 0.25% of men vs 0.675% of men. You really believe that your stats are correct? These are all bullshit napkin math but illustrate how this makes no logical sense, even with numbers HIGHLY skewed in your favor.
    - MrBuddyCasino 4y ago
      No the fact is that biological parents abusing their children is exceedingly rare, its usually mom's new boyfriend or such. This is one reason why religions codify life-long partnerships between biological parents - because everything else is child abuse.
Eisenstein 4y ago
> a Grindr spokesperson said ... “We are infuriated by the actions of these anti-LGBTQ vigilantes” Infuriated by these anti-LGBTQ vigilantes! How dare they use the data we sold them which included their locations and device ID and app usage! What a joke...
- IYasha 4y ago
  Lenihan's reaction is priceless!
- 0xdeadfa65 4y ago
  I had the same response. What exactly should I be outraged about?
  - mock-possum 4y ago
    There are exactly two things to be outraged about here: First, that the data was sold, and second, what the people who bought it used it for.
  - mschuster91 4y ago
    Both at the Catholic Church for thinking it's a good idea to snoop into the sexuality of their clergy - it's 2023 ffs, the Lutherans and Old Catholics [1] have shown that gays and women are no threat to spirituality - and at Grindr for not giving the slightest fuck about the safety of their users in a world where simply being gay can and does get people executed. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Catholic_Church https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Catholic_Church
    - sneak 4y ago
      The clergy opt in to being part of this abusive sect. Nobody forces them to associate with the church. If they don't like the treatment they receive at a job, they can quit. Having abusive and discriminatory bosses is a great reason to GTFO.
      - 4y ago
autoexec 4y ago
And this is why privacy matters, even if you think you have nothing to hide. There's no telling what someone else is going to have a problem with, no way to know if the data being sold about you is accurate or how it will be used against you, and no way to remove whatever data is out there or keep others from weaponizing it. They went after sexual orientation this time, but the next time some group makes headlines because they decide to take advantage of the pervasive surveillance we all live under, it could just as easily be targeting our political views, our religion, our hobbies, our ancestry, our medial conditions, etc. More and more often people are going to buy up, collect, or steal data on whoever they don't like so they can subject them to harassment/abuse/violence/discrimination. There's a multi-billion dollar a year industry around the buying and selling of even the most mundane aspects of our lives and it's sure not just for "ads".
- Semaphor 4y ago
  > And this is why privacy matters, even if you think you have nothing to hide. While I agree in principle, this is a bad example. They are homosexuals who are members of a homophobe group, obviously they do have something to hide.
  - autoexec 4y ago
    Most of these priests probably did feel they had something to hide, but my point was that even those of us who feel we don't are just as vulnerable as these priests since it's impossible to know what might prejudice someone against you. Since we're all being tracked and associated with an endlessly growing set of data points, with no assurance of accuracy, who knows what criteria could get your name pulled and added to the next group's hitlist?
    - Semaphor 4y ago
      As I said, I do agree in principle, it’s just this specific example that is not exactly the best for the argument ;)
  - geraldhh 4y ago
bigbacaloa 4y ago
These people are as bad as those who post revenge porn online. Their activities would be illegal in Europe and should be illegal everywhere.
srmarm 4y ago
Surely this data would have been sold with some terms of use that might allow remedy through civil action even if the data could 'technically' be used in this manner. That being said it's a clear demonstration of why privacy matters and this is only mid-tier in the list of people you wouldn't want to get this data.
qikInNdOutReply 4y ago
Goto love contract cults. Woman searches for men with reliable anti-gay emotional reaction. Then transfers social power to a contract-cult they bully gay men into, to uphold the one contract they actually care about: marriage | social support aka as a civilizational framework. Almost 2000 years of stagnation and missery ensue. Now a new contract cult is in town. Its actually more liberal and less stuck up. It has all the same features of the old, including parades and dogmatic screeching, but a little less violence & enforcing gender norms. All hell breaks loose. Admitted this contract cult instance has men holding the bag a bit, but still to have the old contract cults go into this "Inquisition" for potential runaway servants is ridiculous. Also noticeable, this only applies to "bad" times. As long , as there is a surplus for everyone, nobody gives a ** about "morals". Justice is only needed when push comes to shove. edit: Downvote all you want, the reality of us as a retarded species does not go anywhere fast..
- bilekas 4y ago
  Trying to read this and make some sense from it has given me a headache.
RandomWorker 4y ago
Funny enough a vpn would have hid the service provider, but would have not solved this issue — as some influencers are advertising. It’s the gps data that makes these apps useful (find someone near) that was uses apparently to identify users. Additionally, with device ID you could probably get other datasets that contain email name etc. That seems like a better route to go than the GPS tracks. But, maybe just having the app wasn’t invasive enough.
- YawningAngel 4y ago
  Having good enough opsec that you can't be identified just isn't realistic for normal people, we need to ban this stuff. I'm quite disappointed that GDPR seems to have just resulted in the addition of meaningless consent forms to every website
drKarl 4y ago
But... but... they're catholic priests, they not only have a vote of celibacy but they also consider it a sin to have sex outside marriage! Why would a catholic priest use a Dating App? Religion is a joke... As an atheist I think anyone, including catholic priests, straight, gay or otherwise, can love or have sex or whatever they want to do with whoever they want to (as long as it's a consenting adult of course), but I'd say for them it's a bit of a cognitive dissonance, as it's supposed to go against their core beliefs, they're not just catholic, they became priests... I find the whole thing extremely hypocritical though, trying to uncover gay priests on the one hand, which is wrong because they have a right to privacy, and then the Catholic Church protected and just moved somewhere else to pedophile priests who abused children instead of bringing them to justice.
- nickd2001 4y ago
  Not sure why you got downvoted. As a Catholic, I've upvoted this. Its perfectly fair, and important, to call out hypocrisy. The church does done some things to address the abuse issue, but clearly it is woefully insufficient. We in the church should be concentrating on loving God and loving our neighbour, whatever their personal beliefs, orientation etc.
  - mock-possum 4y ago
    Lord, save us from your followers
- kieranjtierney 4y ago
  Where is the hypocrisy? This is a private Catholic organization trying to expose individual priests & by extension, the Church. Just as lay Catholics exposed child abusing priests & the Church. Once again, it’s lay Catholics trying to clean up degeneracy the Church has turned a blind eye to. This being the case, wouldn’t that make you the hypocrite for taking issue with one & not the other?
dusted 4y ago
I don't understand.. If a religion condemns homosexuality.. And you are homosexual.. Why would you want to subscribe to that religion ? Even more baffling to me, why would you want to be a preacher of that set of ideas ? I'm not religious.. I prefer the religious institutions be allowed to be as bigoted as is their nature, they must be allowed to show their true colors, so that people can see them for what they are and avoid them more readily.
- alex77456 4y ago
  Life is complicated i guess
- nickd2001 4y ago
  Personally, as a Catholic, I really don't think God is very interested whether people are gay or straight, as long as their relationships are based on mutual love and respect, and commitment rather than people "using" each other. I don't believe the Catholic church condemns homosexuality per se, rather, there are some high profile vociferous condemners of homosexuality in the church. Unfortunately some of these are saying this ultra-conservative stuff to hide the fact they're actually abusers. People thought that about Cardinal Pell, we may never know the truth. The problem with religion is.... people! Look at most of the world's religions, both great and terrible things are done in the name of them.... There are some great people in the Catholic church, that's what keeps me there. There are also sadly some not-so-great people and certainly the church has lost a lot fo moral authority having failed to address its own internal failings particularly abuse
- stefs 4y ago
  they are taught that homosexuality is bad and then, when they feel it themselves think ... * that the life of a priest will cure them * prevent them from having the opportunity for acting on their urges * or at least that the righteous lifestyle makes up for their sinful thoughts those people don't become priests despite being gay, they become priests because they are gay.
  - dusted 4y ago
    That's an interesting perspective, I didn't consider how the indoctrination plays into it.
jacooper 4y ago
I mean if this was the opposite, leftist tracking and attacking right wingers, the news coverage wouldn't be that negative, would it?
- _piif 4y ago
  I don't understand how either politic side is relevant in this case. Unless being homosexual automatically makes you a "leftist"?
  - mock-possum 4y ago
    > being homosexual automatically makes you a "leftist"? god if only that were true
  - jacooper 4y ago
    Isn't that a fact? Which US polticial faction supports them?
    - mock-possum 4y ago
      you're grossly underestimating mankind's propensity for shooting itself directly in the foot.
    - foldr 4y ago
      Notorious leftist Peter Thiel?
    - jmopp 4y ago
      Not in all countries. Even though the Tories in the UK are currently very anti-trans, and veering hard-right on immigration, they're not touching gay rights.
      - foldr 4y ago
        One might add: gay marriage was legalised in the UK in 2014 by a coalition government led by the Conservatives.
decremental 4y ago
[flagged]
- mock-possum 4y ago
  > they're on a gross sex hookup app I hope you're writing this from their supposed point of view, because that's a pretty irresponsibly judgmental statement otherwise.
- nickd2001 4y ago
  I agree that its fraudulent. Its a mess though, right? Why would it be more fraudulent for a priest to be having a gay relationship than a straight sexual relationship? Because its a "double sin"? I'm really uncomfortable with that, sounds like homophobia. Find a new line of work? Well I kind of agree but who are the rest of us, who haven't promised to be celibate, to say that or judge? Had I been called to be a priest I think I'd have failed at the celibacy requirement. ;) And anyway the church hasn't always required celibacy, in fact it currently lets married C of E minister join under the ordinariate. I do agree with you these priests are being fraudulent, and possibly should indeed find another line of work but on the other hand why target specifically gay-related issues, seems hard to disentangle from homophobia, and the motivation of those who outed them does not seem kind or loving or following Catholic values
  - decremental 4y ago
    I don't think this will come as a surprise but God doesn't endorse homosexuality. Quite the opposite. God loves everyone, including gay people. He does not love sin. It is perfectly in line with Catholic values to weed out sin in all of its forms.
    - nickd2001 4y ago
      (It wasn't me that downvoted you BTW). It seems to me, God is interested about whether people are being kind and loving to each other, working for peace , avoiding wars, making sure everyone is fed, housed, clothed, educated, respected etc. This includes ensuring people aren't abused or exploited by others, which unfortunately has happened within the church and has a long way to go to be fixed. When it comes to what takes place sexually between consenting adults, absolutely there are morals in that area, but it seems to me it is humans who have become obsessed with that area of morality at the expense of other areas of life. When there are millions upon millions of people that have become refugees as result of wars, famines, floods etc, surely don't you think God is rather more bothered by that? And, doesn't that mean, humans should be most bothered by that. And Catholics should be working to fix that, rather than wasting time on trivialities? I do not condone priests for pretending to be celibate while seeking gay sex, also if they joined the priesthood with the precise intention of finding sex (gay or for that matter straight although the latter is an unlikely reason) rather than serving others, then that's very bad. However... really... in the big scheme of things.. shouldn't we be first and foremost caring about helping the marginalised and vulnerable. Perhaps the wealthy people that outed those gay priests, might have done better helping refugees instead? I'd imagine that's what God would've preferred.
bongoman37 4y ago
[dead]
bitlax 4y ago
Already discussed: Catholic group spent millions on app data that tracked gay priests https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35081899 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35081899 Catholic priest quits after “anonymized” data revealed alleged use of Grindr https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27908921 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27908921 Catholic Church official resigns after cell data tracked him to Grindr, gay bars https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27902214 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27902214
xnx 4y ago
And they did it tax free

61 points by petodo 4y ago

Doesn't that behaviour make this specific "Catholic Laity and Clergy for Renewal" group a "hate group"? So it should be possible to outlaw them, throw their members in jail, and so on?

boomboomsubban 4y ago
Being a hate group isn't illegal.
sneak 4y ago
Hate groups are (and should be) legal (just like "hate speech") until and unless their members, you know, actually break the law. We don't believe in guilt by association in the USA, and freedom of association is constitutionally protected.
- justinclift 4y ago
  > ... actually break the law. Ahhh. Kind of thought they had, as it seems like a case of (digital) stalking and harassment, clearly targetting a group of people based upon their LGBTQ status and religious affiliation.
  - sneak 4y ago
    No, trafficking in personal data is largely still legal in the US.

mock-possum 4y ago

these comments need some HEAVY moderation. can't believe some of what I'm reading here.

NoZebra120vClip 4y ago

I would be completely unsurprised if there were more than a few chaste clerics on these dating apps, and they were fully (secretly) authorized to use the clandestine social networks to provide compassionate ministry to LGBTQ and HIV-positive individuals, and "outing" them completely destroys their ability to serve where they are most needed.

mantas 4y ago
Or just chasing some girls. Too many jokes about catholic priests having good time with their housemaids. Young cleric visits a seasoned priest. After the visit, priest can't find his utensils. Thus he mails him: - I don't want to claim that you stole precious utensils. But after your visit I couldn't find them anymore! The young cleric replies: - I don't want to claim that you sleep with your housemaid. But had you slept in your bed, you'd know that utensils are there.
- NoZebra120vClip 4y ago
  Tasteless and bigoted joke
  - ClapperHeid 4y ago
    >...joke about honest men I guess you've never heard of the many paedophile priest scandals then?
    - JesusLovesEwe 4y ago
      It would be a lot more fun if we could make similar jokes about pedophilia in the Muslim and Jewish communities - where it's arguably far more widespread and tolerated. That we can't reveals an agenda.
      - ClapperHeid 4y ago
        >It would be a lot more fun if we could make similar jokes about pedophilia in the Muslim and Jewish communities... Oh. I agree with you there. Do you know any good ones?

mantas 4y ago

Just a reminder that Catholic priests are forbidden to have any family or romantic relationships.

psiops 4y ago
So why are only gay priests outed in this way? Straight priests on a dating app would be equally offensive to the spirit in the sky.
- mock-possum 4y ago
  > why are only gay priests outed in this way you know why.
- timwaagh 4y ago
  a relative of mine has a husband who was supposed to join the clergy. He just dropped out of the program and married her. Now he's not a priest but a parochial worker. Might be that it is harder to find straight priests because it is possible to just drop out, marry and live a very respectable life. Now if you drop out and come out as gay well that would be a lot more difficult in that kind of community.
  - bombolo 4y ago
    Catholic priests can't quit being priests. It's a permanent-sin status like divorce.
    - NoZebra120vClip 4y ago
      False on both counts!!! First, divorce is a one-and-done sin. Someone who finalizes a divorce and confesses it is in a state of grace, much as someone who ate steak last Friday and confessed.it. Now, a laicized priest is in no sin either, unless he attempts to hold himself out as a priest still. A man with a rescript from the Holy See is typically freed from all obligations of the clerical state, and that can and will often include celibacy, so a laicized priest is perfectly eligible for marriage, and perhaps a really good catch.

favaq 4y ago

[flagged]

exe34 4y ago
Do you believe there is a difference between the words gay and pedophile?
Eisenstein 4y ago
Sorry but what does this have to do with pedophiles? These are grown men meeting other men.
- NoZebra120vClip 4y ago
  Correct; the sexual abuse scandal chiefly involves pederasty, not pedophilia, which is super-rare and occurs with the same rarity among clergy as it does in the general population.
  - defrost 4y ago
    Sure .. if by "super-rare" you actually mean common-place and the norm at Christian Brother Institutions for orphaned boys. https://kelsolawyers.com/au/paedophile_offenders/brother-keaney-bindoon/ https://kelsolawyers.com/au/paedophile_offenders/brother-kea... https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-39078652 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-39078652 NB: These are just the orphanages in a single Australian State - if you'd care to read the various lengthy Royal Commission reports you can find such abuse by Catholic Priests was widespread across the country.
    - NoZebra120vClip 4y ago
      Yes, it's tragic, and unfortunately, there are homosexual men who seek access to young boys via a "vocation", same as any who would seek access through the foster care system, pediatric medicine, teaching, coaching youth, Boy Scouts. The list is endless. The thing that can be done is organizational vigilance, by making all aware of the signs and methods of reporting, and removing barriers such as shame or retaliation.

rl3 4y ago

>Between 2017 and early 2020, Grindr was selling precise location data to ad brokers. Well, that's quite scummy. Tends to enable bad actors in the first place. In January 2016, Grindr announced that it had sold a 60% stake in the company for $93 million to a Chinese video game development firm, Kunlun Tech Co Ltd (formerly Beijing Kunlun Tech Co Ltd). In January 2018, Kunlun purchased the remainder of the company for $152 million. [0] Wasn't exactly the best steward for such a platform. [1][3[4] But hey, at least the founder feels bad about it. [2] I was about to suggest that something which amounts to a giant blackmail database is surely a significant national security risk, and further research indicates that it actually changed hands again for that reason. [3][4] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grindr https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grindr [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_China [2] https://www.queerty.com/grindr-founder-joel-simkhai-believes-created-monster-now-wants-slay-dragon-20221103 https://www.queerty.com/grindr-founder-joel-simkhai-believes... [3] https://techcrunch.com/2020/03/06/grindr-sold-china-national-security/ https://techcrunch.com/2020/03/06/grindr-sold-china-national... [4] https://www.theverge.com/interface/2019/3/28/18285274/grindr-national-security-cfius-china-kunlun-military https://www.theverge.com/interface/2019/3/28/18285274/grindr...

luckylion 4y ago
Selling data on your users sounds like a pretty average move for tech startups though, the connection to "they did it because China discriminates against LGBT" is pretty far-fetched, especially since they still had a minority position when that was happening. I expect they would've done the same if it had been a SF company that would've bought 60% of it in 2016.
- rl3 4y ago
  >... "they did it because China discriminates against LGBT" is pretty far-fetched ... I agree; that's not what I was trying to say, and I'm sure the primary motivator was money. You're correct, other dating apps did and still do sell data. [0] The point I was trying to make is that American consumers are already regarded as barely human from a privacy perspective by our own corporations. It gets worse from there (TikTok), and when you add a certain country's poor LGBTQ human rights record, it's just icing on the cake. By that point they really don't care. --- Match Group, for all their evil, currently states: Match Group does not sell the personal information of our users to any third party. [1] Then in the next paragraph: In particular, we do NOT use sensitive data, such as sexual orientation, racial or ethnic origins, religion, or precise geolocation data for advertising. [1] I like the "precise" part. Sounds like selling personal information to me, but I'm not a lawyer. [0] https://www.npr.org/2020/01/14/796427696/study-grindr-tindr-and-other-apps-share-sensitive-personal-data-with-advertisers https://www.npr.org/2020/01/14/796427696/study-grindr-tindr-... [1] https://mtch.com/privacy https://mtch.com/privacy

mattigames 4y ago

Just the bay area had more than 700 lawsuits for child abuse filled against Catholic church employees in the last 3 years, so this catholic group and similar ones maybe should redirect their efforts into outing child molesters first. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcbayarea.com/investigations/lawsuits-name-hundreds-of-newly-accused-catholic-clergy-and-lay-employees-across-northern-ca/3163119/%3famp=1 https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcbayarea.com/investigatio...

MrBuddyCasino 4y ago
[flagged]
- Eisenstein 4y ago
  Do you actually believe that homosexual men have more access to children than heterosexual men and that they are more prone to pedophilia? Why don't you think about this logically. Even if they overrepresented pedophiles by say 50% compared to hetero men and hetero men are 1% pedophiles, than means as 10% of the population you are looking at 0.5 * 0.1 = = 0.05 = 0.5%. Now say that homosexuals don't usually have access to children like men who have families do, but lets be generous and say that 50% of those men get unsupervised access to children and are practicing child molesters. That makes 0.25% of the population. Let's compare that to hetero men. At 90% of male population and 1% pedos that makes 0.9% of the population. Now, straight men have easier access to kids because, what do you know, they tend to help make them. So, lets say 75% even on the low side here makes 0.675% of active child molesters. 0.25% of men vs 0.675% of men. You really believe that your stats are correct? These are all bullshit napkin math but illustrate how this makes no logical sense, even with numbers HIGHLY skewed in your favor.
  - MrBuddyCasino 4y ago
    No the fact is that biological parents abusing their children is exceedingly rare, its usually mom's new boyfriend or such. This is one reason why religions codify life-long partnerships between biological parents - because everything else is child abuse.

Eisenstein 4y ago

> a Grindr spokesperson said ... “We are infuriated by the actions of these anti-LGBTQ vigilantes” Infuriated by these anti-LGBTQ vigilantes! How dare they use the data we sold them which included their locations and device ID and app usage! What a joke...

IYasha 4y ago
Lenihan's reaction is priceless!
0xdeadfa65 4y ago
I had the same response. What exactly should I be outraged about?
- mock-possum 4y ago
  There are exactly two things to be outraged about here: First, that the data was sold, and second, what the people who bought it used it for.
- mschuster91 4y ago
  Both at the Catholic Church for thinking it's a good idea to snoop into the sexuality of their clergy - it's 2023 ffs, the Lutherans and Old Catholics [1] have shown that gays and women are no threat to spirituality - and at Grindr for not giving the slightest fuck about the safety of their users in a world where simply being gay can and does get people executed. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Catholic_Church https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Catholic_Church
  - sneak 4y ago
    The clergy opt in to being part of this abusive sect. Nobody forces them to associate with the church. If they don't like the treatment they receive at a job, they can quit. Having abusive and discriminatory bosses is a great reason to GTFO.
    - 4y ago

autoexec 4y ago

And this is why privacy matters, even if you think you have nothing to hide. There's no telling what someone else is going to have a problem with, no way to know if the data being sold about you is accurate or how it will be used against you, and no way to remove whatever data is out there or keep others from weaponizing it. They went after sexual orientation this time, but the next time some group makes headlines because they decide to take advantage of the pervasive surveillance we all live under, it could just as easily be targeting our political views, our religion, our hobbies, our ancestry, our medial conditions, etc. More and more often people are going to buy up, collect, or steal data on whoever they don't like so they can subject them to harassment/abuse/violence/discrimination. There's a multi-billion dollar a year industry around the buying and selling of even the most mundane aspects of our lives and it's sure not just for "ads".

Semaphor 4y ago
> And this is why privacy matters, even if you think you have nothing to hide. While I agree in principle, this is a bad example. They are homosexuals who are members of a homophobe group, obviously they do have something to hide.
- autoexec 4y ago
  Most of these priests probably did feel they had something to hide, but my point was that even those of us who feel we don't are just as vulnerable as these priests since it's impossible to know what might prejudice someone against you. Since we're all being tracked and associated with an endlessly growing set of data points, with no assurance of accuracy, who knows what criteria could get your name pulled and added to the next group's hitlist?
  - Semaphor 4y ago
    As I said, I do agree in principle, it’s just this specific example that is not exactly the best for the argument ;)
- geraldhh 4y ago

bigbacaloa 4y ago

These people are as bad as those who post revenge porn online. Their activities would be illegal in Europe and should be illegal everywhere.

srmarm 4y ago

Surely this data would have been sold with some terms of use that might allow remedy through civil action even if the data could 'technically' be used in this manner. That being said it's a clear demonstration of why privacy matters and this is only mid-tier in the list of people you wouldn't want to get this data.

qikInNdOutReply 4y ago

Goto love contract cults. Woman searches for men with reliable anti-gay emotional reaction. Then transfers social power to a contract-cult they bully gay men into, to uphold the one contract they actually care about: marriage | social support aka as a civilizational framework. Almost 2000 years of stagnation and missery ensue. Now a new contract cult is in town. Its actually more liberal and less stuck up. It has all the same features of the old, including parades and dogmatic screeching, but a little less violence & enforcing gender norms. All hell breaks loose. Admitted this contract cult instance has men holding the bag a bit, but still to have the old contract cults go into this "Inquisition" for potential runaway servants is ridiculous. Also noticeable, this only applies to "bad" times. As long , as there is a surplus for everyone, nobody gives a ** about "morals". Justice is only needed when push comes to shove. edit: Downvote all you want, the reality of us as a retarded species does not go anywhere fast..

bilekas 4y ago
Trying to read this and make some sense from it has given me a headache.

RandomWorker 4y ago

Funny enough a vpn would have hid the service provider, but would have not solved this issue — as some influencers are advertising. It’s the gps data that makes these apps useful (find someone near) that was uses apparently to identify users. Additionally, with device ID you could probably get other datasets that contain email name etc. That seems like a better route to go than the GPS tracks. But, maybe just having the app wasn’t invasive enough.

YawningAngel 4y ago
Having good enough opsec that you can't be identified just isn't realistic for normal people, we need to ban this stuff. I'm quite disappointed that GDPR seems to have just resulted in the addition of meaningless consent forms to every website

drKarl 4y ago

But... but... they're catholic priests, they not only have a vote of celibacy but they also consider it a sin to have sex outside marriage! Why would a catholic priest use a Dating App? Religion is a joke... As an atheist I think anyone, including catholic priests, straight, gay or otherwise, can love or have sex or whatever they want to do with whoever they want to (as long as it's a consenting adult of course), but I'd say for them it's a bit of a cognitive dissonance, as it's supposed to go against their core beliefs, they're not just catholic, they became priests... I find the whole thing extremely hypocritical though, trying to uncover gay priests on the one hand, which is wrong because they have a right to privacy, and then the Catholic Church protected and just moved somewhere else to pedophile priests who abused children instead of bringing them to justice.

nickd2001 4y ago
Not sure why you got downvoted. As a Catholic, I've upvoted this. Its perfectly fair, and important, to call out hypocrisy. The church does done some things to address the abuse issue, but clearly it is woefully insufficient. We in the church should be concentrating on loving God and loving our neighbour, whatever their personal beliefs, orientation etc.
- mock-possum 4y ago
  Lord, save us from your followers
kieranjtierney 4y ago
Where is the hypocrisy? This is a private Catholic organization trying to expose individual priests & by extension, the Church. Just as lay Catholics exposed child abusing priests & the Church. Once again, it’s lay Catholics trying to clean up degeneracy the Church has turned a blind eye to. This being the case, wouldn’t that make you the hypocrite for taking issue with one & not the other?

dusted 4y ago

I don't understand.. If a religion condemns homosexuality.. And you are homosexual.. Why would you want to subscribe to that religion ? Even more baffling to me, why would you want to be a preacher of that set of ideas ? I'm not religious.. I prefer the religious institutions be allowed to be as bigoted as is their nature, they must be allowed to show their true colors, so that people can see them for what they are and avoid them more readily.

alex77456 4y ago
Life is complicated i guess
nickd2001 4y ago
Personally, as a Catholic, I really don't think God is very interested whether people are gay or straight, as long as their relationships are based on mutual love and respect, and commitment rather than people "using" each other. I don't believe the Catholic church condemns homosexuality per se, rather, there are some high profile vociferous condemners of homosexuality in the church. Unfortunately some of these are saying this ultra-conservative stuff to hide the fact they're actually abusers. People thought that about Cardinal Pell, we may never know the truth. The problem with religion is.... people! Look at most of the world's religions, both great and terrible things are done in the name of them.... There are some great people in the Catholic church, that's what keeps me there. There are also sadly some not-so-great people and certainly the church has lost a lot fo moral authority having failed to address its own internal failings particularly abuse
stefs 4y ago
they are taught that homosexuality is bad and then, when they feel it themselves think ... * that the life of a priest will cure them * prevent them from having the opportunity for acting on their urges * or at least that the righteous lifestyle makes up for their sinful thoughts those people don't become priests despite being gay, they become priests because they are gay.
- dusted 4y ago
  That's an interesting perspective, I didn't consider how the indoctrination plays into it.

jacooper 4y ago

I mean if this was the opposite, leftist tracking and attacking right wingers, the news coverage wouldn't be that negative, would it?

_piif 4y ago
I don't understand how either politic side is relevant in this case. Unless being homosexual automatically makes you a "leftist"?
- mock-possum 4y ago
  > being homosexual automatically makes you a "leftist"? god if only that were true
- jacooper 4y ago
  Isn't that a fact? Which US polticial faction supports them?
  - mock-possum 4y ago
    you're grossly underestimating mankind's propensity for shooting itself directly in the foot.
  - foldr 4y ago
    Notorious leftist Peter Thiel?
  - jmopp 4y ago
    Not in all countries. Even though the Tories in the UK are currently very anti-trans, and veering hard-right on immigration, they're not touching gay rights.
    - foldr 4y ago
      One might add: gay marriage was legalised in the UK in 2014 by a coalition government led by the Conservatives.

decremental 4y ago

[flagged]

mock-possum 4y ago
> they're on a gross sex hookup app I hope you're writing this from their supposed point of view, because that's a pretty irresponsibly judgmental statement otherwise.
nickd2001 4y ago
I agree that its fraudulent. Its a mess though, right? Why would it be more fraudulent for a priest to be having a gay relationship than a straight sexual relationship? Because its a "double sin"? I'm really uncomfortable with that, sounds like homophobia. Find a new line of work? Well I kind of agree but who are the rest of us, who haven't promised to be celibate, to say that or judge? Had I been called to be a priest I think I'd have failed at the celibacy requirement. ;) And anyway the church hasn't always required celibacy, in fact it currently lets married C of E minister join under the ordinariate. I do agree with you these priests are being fraudulent, and possibly should indeed find another line of work but on the other hand why target specifically gay-related issues, seems hard to disentangle from homophobia, and the motivation of those who outed them does not seem kind or loving or following Catholic values
- decremental 4y ago
  I don't think this will come as a surprise but God doesn't endorse homosexuality. Quite the opposite. God loves everyone, including gay people. He does not love sin. It is perfectly in line with Catholic values to weed out sin in all of its forms.
  - nickd2001 4y ago
    (It wasn't me that downvoted you BTW). It seems to me, God is interested about whether people are being kind and loving to each other, working for peace , avoiding wars, making sure everyone is fed, housed, clothed, educated, respected etc. This includes ensuring people aren't abused or exploited by others, which unfortunately has happened within the church and has a long way to go to be fixed. When it comes to what takes place sexually between consenting adults, absolutely there are morals in that area, but it seems to me it is humans who have become obsessed with that area of morality at the expense of other areas of life. When there are millions upon millions of people that have become refugees as result of wars, famines, floods etc, surely don't you think God is rather more bothered by that? And, doesn't that mean, humans should be most bothered by that. And Catholics should be working to fix that, rather than wasting time on trivialities? I do not condone priests for pretending to be celibate while seeking gay sex, also if they joined the priesthood with the precise intention of finding sex (gay or for that matter straight although the latter is an unlikely reason) rather than serving others, then that's very bad. However... really... in the big scheme of things.. shouldn't we be first and foremost caring about helping the marginalised and vulnerable. Perhaps the wealthy people that outed those gay priests, might have done better helping refugees instead? I'd imagine that's what God would've preferred.

bongoman37 4y ago

[dead]

bitlax 4y ago

Already discussed: Catholic group spent millions on app data that tracked gay priests https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35081899 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35081899 Catholic priest quits after “anonymized” data revealed alleged use of Grindr https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27908921 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27908921 Catholic Church official resigns after cell data tracked him to Grindr, gay bars https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27902214 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27902214

xnx 4y ago

And they did it tax free