4 ms·

I'm amazed he was convicted/pled guilty three separate times in Germany and yet never had to do any prison time. After going easy on him twice didn't work, you'

by donaldc 15y ago

I'm amazed he was convicted/pled guilty three separate times in Germany and yet never had to do any prison time. After going easy on him twice didn't work, you'd think they'd want to try something else.

celticninja 15y ago
Not every crime requires a prison sentence. One of those crimes was insider trading, do you know that is also illegal in the United States too, with the exception of it being carried out by US Politicians. Perhaps get your own house in order before you start complaining about the legal systems of other countries.
- adestefan 15y ago
  There have been many people in the US that have gone to prison for insider trading. Martha Stewart is probably the most famous.
  - celticninja 15y ago
    I dont doubt it, your SEC goes after it agressively, however that it is not illegal for US politicians makes the whole thing a bit of a joke really as they are the people who will have the most opportunity ot profit from some actiosn given that theyc an influence and cotnrol policy which would significantly affect share prices.
    - adestefan 15y ago
      Inside trading is specific to a single stock. Most politicians only hold single stock in a blind trust so they can't really perform insider trading. Instead, the flap over "insider trading" for politicians is when they, supposedly, change entire sectors and then trade broad, sector based funds. However, I don't think that has actually been proven with more than a look at these financial disclosures. Does it look bad? Sure. Is it illegal? Nope.
      - celticninja 15y ago
        That is kind of my point, for them it is not illegal, for everyone else it is. They are also protected from the kind of direct insider trading that the SEC tries to stamp out in the private sector, to say that it doesnt occur is to be a bit naieve really. Here have a read: http://blogs.ajc.com/political-insider-jim-galloway/2011/11/16/congress-and-a-16-year-study-of-insider-trading/ http://blogs.ajc.com/political-insider-jim-galloway/2011/11/... "In September 2008, Bachus and other congressional leaders were privately briefed by Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke on the economy’s imminent meltdown. The next day, Bachus was buying option funds that would increase in value if the economy tanked.It did."
  - jonknee 15y ago
    Martha Stewart didn't go to prison for insider trading. She got convicted because she talked to the Feds (the charges were obstructing justice and lying to investigators). Never talk to the Feds. In her case it was probably ego that did her in, not access to good legal advice. http://money.cnn.com/2004/03/05/news/companies/martha_verdict/ http://money.cnn.com/2004/03/05/news/companies/martha_verdic... "The conviction came exactly a week after U.S. District Judge Miriam Goldman Cedarbaum threw out the most serious charge against Stewart -- securities fraud -- which carried a maximum penalty of 10 years in prison and a $1 million fine. The charge -- which the judge had called "novel" during the trial -- accused Stewart of using her own statements that she was innocent as a ploy to mislead investors in her company, Martha Stewart Living Omnimedia."
- fan 15y ago
  I disagree that a citizen of one country cannot complain about the actions of another country if his/her own country has some (perhaps worse) violations as well. Applying this logic would mean that no one, say, in the 1980s Soviet Union had anything insightful to say about political oppression in the UK.
shin_lao 15y ago
He was not physically violent with another human being, it is therefore useless to physically isolate him.
- T-zex 15y ago
  Are you implying that thieves should not go to jail?
  - gizmo 15y ago
    Depends on the goal. - Is it retribution? Then corporal punishment is an easier and cheaper solution. It's also arguably more humane than jail/prison. - Is it to protect society? A thief has to steal a lot to do more damage than he'd cost as a prisoner. - Is the goal to deterrence? That's fine, but prison sentences only really work as deterrence for premeditated crimes, and thieves are typically addicts of some sort. The whole justice problem isn't that easy, and just throwing everybody in jail is a pretty bad idea. They do that in the USA and the results are horrific.
kahawe 15y ago
On one or two of those times he got away for being a minor... and allegedly when they got him for phone card and credit card fraud, they might have offered him a deal and he snitched on and betrayed the whole scene that actually built him up first. See also comment here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3513015 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3513015

by donaldc 15y ago

celticninja 15y ago

Not every crime requires a prison sentence. One of those crimes was insider trading, do you know that is also illegal in the United States too, with the exception of it being carried out by US Politicians. Perhaps get your own house in order before you start complaining about the legal systems of other countries.

adestefan 15y ago
There have been many people in the US that have gone to prison for insider trading. Martha Stewart is probably the most famous.
- celticninja 15y ago
  I dont doubt it, your SEC goes after it agressively, however that it is not illegal for US politicians makes the whole thing a bit of a joke really as they are the people who will have the most opportunity ot profit from some actiosn given that theyc an influence and cotnrol policy which would significantly affect share prices.
  - adestefan 15y ago
    Inside trading is specific to a single stock. Most politicians only hold single stock in a blind trust so they can't really perform insider trading. Instead, the flap over "insider trading" for politicians is when they, supposedly, change entire sectors and then trade broad, sector based funds. However, I don't think that has actually been proven with more than a look at these financial disclosures. Does it look bad? Sure. Is it illegal? Nope.
    - celticninja 15y ago
      That is kind of my point, for them it is not illegal, for everyone else it is. They are also protected from the kind of direct insider trading that the SEC tries to stamp out in the private sector, to say that it doesnt occur is to be a bit naieve really. Here have a read: http://blogs.ajc.com/political-insider-jim-galloway/2011/11/16/congress-and-a-16-year-study-of-insider-trading/ http://blogs.ajc.com/political-insider-jim-galloway/2011/11/... "In September 2008, Bachus and other congressional leaders were privately briefed by Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke on the economy’s imminent meltdown. The next day, Bachus was buying option funds that would increase in value if the economy tanked.It did."
- jonknee 15y ago
  Martha Stewart didn't go to prison for insider trading. She got convicted because she talked to the Feds (the charges were obstructing justice and lying to investigators). Never talk to the Feds. In her case it was probably ego that did her in, not access to good legal advice. http://money.cnn.com/2004/03/05/news/companies/martha_verdict/ http://money.cnn.com/2004/03/05/news/companies/martha_verdic... "The conviction came exactly a week after U.S. District Judge Miriam Goldman Cedarbaum threw out the most serious charge against Stewart -- securities fraud -- which carried a maximum penalty of 10 years in prison and a $1 million fine. The charge -- which the judge had called "novel" during the trial -- accused Stewart of using her own statements that she was innocent as a ploy to mislead investors in her company, Martha Stewart Living Omnimedia."
fan 15y ago
I disagree that a citizen of one country cannot complain about the actions of another country if his/her own country has some (perhaps worse) violations as well. Applying this logic would mean that no one, say, in the 1980s Soviet Union had anything insightful to say about political oppression in the UK.

shin_lao 15y ago

He was not physically violent with another human being, it is therefore useless to physically isolate him.

T-zex 15y ago
Are you implying that thieves should not go to jail?
- gizmo 15y ago
  Depends on the goal. - Is it retribution? Then corporal punishment is an easier and cheaper solution. It's also arguably more humane than jail/prison. - Is it to protect society? A thief has to steal a lot to do more damage than he'd cost as a prisoner. - Is the goal to deterrence? That's fine, but prison sentences only really work as deterrence for premeditated crimes, and thieves are typically addicts of some sort. The whole justice problem isn't that easy, and just throwing everybody in jail is a pretty bad idea. They do that in the USA and the results are horrific.

kahawe 15y ago

On one or two of those times he got away for being a minor... and allegedly when they got him for phone card and credit card fraud, they might have offered him a deal and he snitched on and betrayed the whole scene that actually built him up first. See also comment here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3513015 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3513015