5 ms·

Why we continually engage with the Middle East outside Israel is beyond me.

by richwater 4y ago

albertopv 4y ago
Oil and gas, what else?
- user070223 4y ago
  Suez canal, arms sales, preventive measures
recuter 4y ago
Realpolitik. Goes back to FDR. Reportedly he once said (in a different context): He may be a son of a bitch, but he's our son of a bitch. Disengaging or virtue signaling would be a mistake. The world is filled with unpalatable regimes that the US needs to handle somehow. Frankly, if we follow your attitude to its natural conclusion you'd disengage from most of South America, Asia, Africa, and Eastern Europe.
- panick21_ 4y ago
  Actually, if it was Realpolitik then the US would engage in a off-shore balancing approach. Not giving unending support to the Saudi-Israel alliance. In fact, the US would gain strategic power by stopping to be so anti Iran. In a more neutral position both nations have far more to lose. And the Saudis are rightfully panicked about this ever happening and Israel-Saudi alliance spend absurd amount of money in Washington, including think-tanks, employing generals, paying politicians, producing fake intelligence, grand standing and many other methods to make sure not even a slight change in position towards Iran is ever allowed. As the US, literally putting yourself in the position where you have no other choice then being somebodies little toothless bitch isn't actually good realpolitk. Letting Saudi money so directly influence US politics is idiotically dumb in fact.
  - recuter 4y ago
    You might want to reconsider this take by reading the news of the day: Iran and Saudi Arabia just had a rapprochement brokered by... the Chinese. Whoopsie daisy.
avgcorrection 4y ago
Implying that Israel is neutral or good? Some people argue that Israel is an Apartheid state.[1] Why should “we”/you(plural) engage with that? [1] Chomsky argues that even that is a compliment https://www.commondreams.org/views/2022/07/03/chomsky-israeli-apartheid-celebrity-activists-bds-and-one-state-solution https://www.commondreams.org/views/2022/07/03/chomsky-israel...
vkou 4y ago
Is there any reason why we should engage with an apartheid state?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
panick21_ 4y ago
Yeah, I mean israel is just pure good. Ignoring the apartheid state, the open air prison, violation of international law, secret hidden nuclear weapons, bombing and attacking foreign nation more consistently then Russia, conducting international spying and information campaigns, influencing election, assassinating foreign scientists, producing false evidence accusing other nations of building nuclear weapons (the irnoy) and that just the first few things that jump to mind. They are such a great ally, they have done all those great things. Like in the Golf War 1, when they did literally nothing and they were the biggest hindrance to forming a coalition. Or that time where they broke all agreements with the US and made a 2-state solution practically impossible. Or when a war they started led to mass radicalization, that motivated directly motivated the 911 bombers to join AQ. Or when top level Israeli officials literally said they preferred ISIS and certainty wouldn't help much defeating them, bombing the forces who were fighting ISIS. Israel is such a great ally, they really have earned unending friendship and support. They are not at all like other nations in the middle east.

Why we continually engage with the Middle East outside Israel is beyond me.

albertopv 4y ago

Oil and gas, what else?

user070223 4y ago
Suez canal, arms sales, preventive measures

recuter 4y ago

Realpolitik. Goes back to FDR. Reportedly he once said (in a different context): He may be a son of a bitch, but he's our son of a bitch. Disengaging or virtue signaling would be a mistake. The world is filled with unpalatable regimes that the US needs to handle somehow. Frankly, if we follow your attitude to its natural conclusion you'd disengage from most of South America, Asia, Africa, and Eastern Europe.

panick21_ 4y ago
Actually, if it was Realpolitik then the US would engage in a off-shore balancing approach. Not giving unending support to the Saudi-Israel alliance. In fact, the US would gain strategic power by stopping to be so anti Iran. In a more neutral position both nations have far more to lose. And the Saudis are rightfully panicked about this ever happening and Israel-Saudi alliance spend absurd amount of money in Washington, including think-tanks, employing generals, paying politicians, producing fake intelligence, grand standing and many other methods to make sure not even a slight change in position towards Iran is ever allowed. As the US, literally putting yourself in the position where you have no other choice then being somebodies little toothless bitch isn't actually good realpolitk. Letting Saudi money so directly influence US politics is idiotically dumb in fact.
- recuter 4y ago
  You might want to reconsider this take by reading the news of the day: Iran and Saudi Arabia just had a rapprochement brokered by... the Chinese. Whoopsie daisy.

avgcorrection 4y ago

Implying that Israel is neutral or good? Some people argue that Israel is an Apartheid state.[1] Why should “we”/you(plural) engage with that? [1] Chomsky argues that even that is a compliment https://www.commondreams.org/views/2022/07/03/chomsky-israeli-apartheid-celebrity-activists-bds-and-one-state-solution https://www.commondreams.org/views/2022/07/03/chomsky-israel...

vkou 4y ago

Is there any reason why we should engage with an apartheid state?

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

panick21_ 4y ago

Yeah, I mean israel is just pure good. Ignoring the apartheid state, the open air prison, violation of international law, secret hidden nuclear weapons, bombing and attacking foreign nation more consistently then Russia, conducting international spying and information campaigns, influencing election, assassinating foreign scientists, producing false evidence accusing other nations of building nuclear weapons (the irnoy) and that just the first few things that jump to mind. They are such a great ally, they have done all those great things. Like in the Golf War 1, when they did literally nothing and they were the biggest hindrance to forming a coalition. Or that time where they broke all agreements with the US and made a 2-state solution practically impossible. Or when a war they started led to mass radicalization, that motivated directly motivated the 911 bombers to join AQ. Or when top level Israeli officials literally said they preferred ISIS and certainty wouldn't help much defeating them, bombing the forces who were fighting ISIS. Israel is such a great ally, they really have earned unending friendship and support. They are not at all like other nations in the middle east.