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> Want your kids to work forced overtime attaching dead chickens to hooks in a fridge? I get your point. But the example doesn’t look convincing. If you’re com

by f6v 4y ago

> Want your kids to work forced overtime attaching dead chickens to hooks in a fridge? I get your point. But the example doesn’t look convincing. If you’re comfortable with eating meat you should be comfortable with seeing how it’s made.

rat9988 4y ago
Not as a kid.
- Teever 4y ago
  I have a good friend whonwpuld frequently cut chicken's heads off with an axe while helping out ar a familt farm and another who would frequently go duck hunting with his dad and describes killing the ducks by violently spinning their necks. I've never done any of these things but my friends seem fine to me. The problem with children working in slaughter houses isnt that the children will be exposed to dead animals, its that they'll be exposed to unsafe working conditions and taken advantage of by their employer.
  - hunter-gatherer 4y ago
    Your point can really be expounded on a lot. I am one of those people who, as a kid, hunted various types of game. I also worked a summer as a 17 year old at ritewood egg in southern idaho. Although I wasn't butchering animals, the mental toll of watching where the 2-dollar-a-dozen eggs came from was more noticeable than hanging and gutting a deer in the woods. I have no issues with children (14-18) having jobs, but there are industries we should strive as a society to keep them from. I wouldn't want kids working in animal food production for the same reasons I wouldn't want them in coal mines. It is important to consoder that those _reasons_ to start to dissipate as one matures and gets older and able to hold their own. As a society we really should be striving to give kids the best opportunities to engage in constructive play and school before jobs in my opinion. Not that my opinion matters at all though...
  - pixl97 4y ago
    Really it's the repetitive motion injuries that are by far the most dangerous here in this specific industry. Especially in people that are still developing and are not fully grown. The industry will gladly burn them up and then farm off their injuries to socialized healthcare for the rest of their lives. And you're completely correct. There are reasons why we don't let kids make a huge number of different contracts. They don't have the knowledge to know when they are being exploited.
zepolen 4y ago
You don't get the point.
Gracana 4y ago
I'm comfortable (more or less) with a lot of things in society that I wouldn't want children to be doing. I don't think that argument makes sense.
NSMutableSet 4y ago
Unless you grow everything yourself, the production of fruits and vegetables that you consume also involve exploitation and suffering. The humans aren't being eaten, but they're hung out to dry all the same. Even if you do grow everything yourself, people had to suffer to obtain the nitrogen and phosphorus in your fertilizer.
- roboticmind 4y ago
  However the levels of suffering is magnified by animal agriculture especially because it takes a large amount of crops for feed > 1 kg of meat requires 2.8 kg of human-edible feed for ruminants and 3.2 for monogastrics https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2211912416300013 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S22119... As for fertilizer, the usage is lower without animal agriculture even compared to best case usage of manure > Thus, shifting from animal to plant sources of protein can substantially reduce fertilizer requirements, even with maximal use of animal manure https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0921344922006528 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S09213...
jjoonathan 4y ago
Really? That's what you thought gp was objecting to? Not the fact that the work is low-value and dead-end? Not the forced overtime? Not the parents subsidizing an exploitative industry? You thought this was about seeing chickens on hooks?
swatcoder 4y ago
> If you’re comfortable with eating meat you should be comfortable with seeing how it’s made. Pretty sure that can get covered by a field trip , or even a video.
- itronitron 4y ago
  And to add to that, watching adults perform the task is much better preparation for adulthood than being forced to do something the adults are not willing to do themselves. As a teenager I got to see my father and two uncles kill, sanitize, and pluck one goose and two chickens that we had for a Thanksgiving dinner one year. It was rather interesting, and it gave me more appreciation and insight into each of them as individuals (the men not the birds).
  - ghaff 4y ago
    At some boy scout (leadership?) thing we did that with a chicken. I assume that would be hilariously in the "nope. not going to happen." camp today.
8note 4y ago
Since nobody else has said the actual problem, it's twofold, 1. The danger of putting the dead chickens on the sharp hooks -- shorter, weaker, less mature children are more likely to be injured or injure others with those hooks 2. The forced overtime - a kid needs to eat and sleep a ton, not spend 2 hours working at 3pm, then another hour at 9pm and another 4hours at 4am and then another 5 hours at 11am. They have commitments that we as a society want them to make, like going to school, and those are incompatible with the modern just-in-time labour practices. Not that those are good for adults either, but it's even worse for kids to drop out in order to meet the anti-benefits scheduling. Children have neither the power, nor the maturity to push back on a boss that is taking advantage of them
glaucon 4y ago
>If you’re comfortable with eating meat you should be comfortable with seeing how it’s made In the same way that if you're comfortable defecating you should be comfortable with having a sewage treatment plant in your back yard ?
- olyjohn 4y ago
  Nah bro, he's saying you should be comfortable sending your kids to work at the sewage treatment plant picking trash out of giant piles of shit. But don't worry, there will be proper oversight and safety in place. It's mush safer to put a small child inside a machine, as they fit much easier. Safety first!
  - ssnistfajen 4y ago
    We are so bringing climbing boys back to disrupt the chimney sweeping industry!

by f6v 4y ago

rat9988 4y ago

Not as a kid.

Teever 4y ago
I have a good friend whonwpuld frequently cut chicken's heads off with an axe while helping out ar a familt farm and another who would frequently go duck hunting with his dad and describes killing the ducks by violently spinning their necks. I've never done any of these things but my friends seem fine to me. The problem with children working in slaughter houses isnt that the children will be exposed to dead animals, its that they'll be exposed to unsafe working conditions and taken advantage of by their employer.
- hunter-gatherer 4y ago
  Your point can really be expounded on a lot. I am one of those people who, as a kid, hunted various types of game. I also worked a summer as a 17 year old at ritewood egg in southern idaho. Although I wasn't butchering animals, the mental toll of watching where the 2-dollar-a-dozen eggs came from was more noticeable than hanging and gutting a deer in the woods. I have no issues with children (14-18) having jobs, but there are industries we should strive as a society to keep them from. I wouldn't want kids working in animal food production for the same reasons I wouldn't want them in coal mines. It is important to consoder that those _reasons_ to start to dissipate as one matures and gets older and able to hold their own. As a society we really should be striving to give kids the best opportunities to engage in constructive play and school before jobs in my opinion. Not that my opinion matters at all though...
- pixl97 4y ago
  Really it's the repetitive motion injuries that are by far the most dangerous here in this specific industry. Especially in people that are still developing and are not fully grown. The industry will gladly burn them up and then farm off their injuries to socialized healthcare for the rest of their lives. And you're completely correct. There are reasons why we don't let kids make a huge number of different contracts. They don't have the knowledge to know when they are being exploited.

zepolen 4y ago

You don't get the point.

Gracana 4y ago

I'm comfortable (more or less) with a lot of things in society that I wouldn't want children to be doing. I don't think that argument makes sense.

NSMutableSet 4y ago

Unless you grow everything yourself, the production of fruits and vegetables that you consume also involve exploitation and suffering. The humans aren't being eaten, but they're hung out to dry all the same. Even if you do grow everything yourself, people had to suffer to obtain the nitrogen and phosphorus in your fertilizer.

roboticmind 4y ago
However the levels of suffering is magnified by animal agriculture especially because it takes a large amount of crops for feed > 1 kg of meat requires 2.8 kg of human-edible feed for ruminants and 3.2 for monogastrics https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2211912416300013 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S22119... As for fertilizer, the usage is lower without animal agriculture even compared to best case usage of manure > Thus, shifting from animal to plant sources of protein can substantially reduce fertilizer requirements, even with maximal use of animal manure https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0921344922006528 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S09213...

jjoonathan 4y ago

Really? That's what you thought gp was objecting to? Not the fact that the work is low-value and dead-end? Not the forced overtime? Not the parents subsidizing an exploitative industry? You thought this was about seeing chickens on hooks?

swatcoder 4y ago

> If you’re comfortable with eating meat you should be comfortable with seeing how it’s made. Pretty sure that can get covered by a field trip , or even a video.

itronitron 4y ago
And to add to that, watching adults perform the task is much better preparation for adulthood than being forced to do something the adults are not willing to do themselves. As a teenager I got to see my father and two uncles kill, sanitize, and pluck one goose and two chickens that we had for a Thanksgiving dinner one year. It was rather interesting, and it gave me more appreciation and insight into each of them as individuals (the men not the birds).
- ghaff 4y ago
  At some boy scout (leadership?) thing we did that with a chicken. I assume that would be hilariously in the "nope. not going to happen." camp today.

8note 4y ago

Since nobody else has said the actual problem, it's twofold, 1. The danger of putting the dead chickens on the sharp hooks -- shorter, weaker, less mature children are more likely to be injured or injure others with those hooks 2. The forced overtime - a kid needs to eat and sleep a ton, not spend 2 hours working at 3pm, then another hour at 9pm and another 4hours at 4am and then another 5 hours at 11am. They have commitments that we as a society want them to make, like going to school, and those are incompatible with the modern just-in-time labour practices. Not that those are good for adults either, but it's even worse for kids to drop out in order to meet the anti-benefits scheduling. Children have neither the power, nor the maturity to push back on a boss that is taking advantage of them

glaucon 4y ago

>If you’re comfortable with eating meat you should be comfortable with seeing how it’s made In the same way that if you're comfortable defecating you should be comfortable with having a sewage treatment plant in your back yard ?

olyjohn 4y ago
Nah bro, he's saying you should be comfortable sending your kids to work at the sewage treatment plant picking trash out of giant piles of shit. But don't worry, there will be proper oversight and safety in place. It's mush safer to put a small child inside a machine, as they fit much easier. Safety first!
- ssnistfajen 4y ago
  We are so bringing climbing boys back to disrupt the chimney sweeping industry!