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It’s because American society doesn’t let being unhealthy be an affirmative choice. You either need to demonstrate some kind of shame for your unhealthiness or

It’s because American society doesn’t let being unhealthy be an affirmative choice. You either need to demonstrate some kind of shame for your unhealthiness or some kind rationale that explains how its actually healthy. The honest facts that “I like to eat tasty good” and “I don’t really enjoy too much physical activity” are only permissible if you also say “and I can’t help myself” or “and it’s actually not unhealthy.” It’s a social dance that makes people hide the personal truth that health isn’t the only thing that matters in life.

wizofaus 4y ago
It might not be the only thing that matters, but once you lose your health, it's very hard to get much enjoyment out of anything else in life. Our bodies remind us constantly in no uncertain terms when they're not functioning well. I can't imagine anything I'd willingly sacrifice my health for, except in some extreme case like saving the lives of loved ones.
wkat4242 4y ago
It isn't the only thing in life of course. If you're healthy but living on the street it's not a very nice life. For me being obese is not really a choice. It's just really hard to do anything about it, especially because I tend to overeat when I encounter stress in life. And I'm not wired with the discipline to fix it. I often go on diets but they never last. Also, living alone cooking is a real chore and there's not enough ready made healthy food. And in terms of exercise I really hate team sports and mindless weight lifting. I do hike a bit though when the season permits. Are these excuses? Sure but if I could have changed it I would have.
- jodrellblank 4y ago
  This comment unpacks into a whole world of ideas around obesity which get pushed under the rug by just saying it's "your choice" and you need "discipline" and "diets" to fix it. Most thin people don't stay thin by discipline - or not much discipline. Most thin people don't stay thin by team sports and weightlifting. Most thin people aren't going on diets, ever. Most thin people aren't "choosing" to be thin, they have nature and nurture and culture and environment where thin is the result. 1950 had 10% of Americans being obese. Now 35% are. Has there been a decrease in weightlifting since then? A paucity of dieting? No, surely both of those are on record highs with gym memberships and Weightwatchers being so profitable. What about a collapse of discipline - through one of the most productive times in human history, today with lowest unemployment in 20 years? Like: car dependent suburbia. If you don't grow up walking to the shops with your parents, walking to the park to play, walking to school, cycling to school, walking or cycling to work; if your only exposure to movement is mandatory exercise at school which is unpleasant, what does that do to your lifelong views? If your environment doesn't have anywhere interesting to walk to, or any sidewalk to walk on, what does that do? Like: If your parents and family never moved except to get to the car, what kind of early mental expectations does that set you up with? Children try to imitate their parents, if the parents alway groan and complain about having to walk anywhere, that's some kind of lesson. Like: Livestrong.com says "The average restaurant meal is four times larger than it was in the 1950s. Similarly, the size of American-manufactured dinner plates has increased nearly 23 percent, from 9.6 inch". If you habitually eat out at restaurants and they gradually feed you more, more sugary, food, but you still have the "clean your plate to be polite" mentality, what does that do? Like: where did this idea of "healthy food" come from? "Health" isn't something in food. Like: where did the idea that cooking is "a real chore" come from? Can't one grow up to find preparing food a relaxing joy, an interest, an everyday part of life? Or learn to spend less time on it, e.g. meal prepping? Like: "I tend to overeat when I encounter stress in life" - Where does that behaviour come from? That's learned from somewhere, it isn't innate to cavepeople to have food on hand just in case life gets stressful, it's likely some family or community cultural habit where others might not do that. I think it was Paul Lutus in a Reddit AMA, someone asked him if he baked much when living in a cabin in the woods, and he said he found it difficult to resist eating baked goods so he just didn't make them or buy them. That kind of discipline is much easier than buying them, having them nearby, and trying to resist eating them every moment forever. > "Sure but if I could have changed it I would have." Perhaps you can't, there are suggestions that becoming obese screws up your body forever, so it burns less fat (e.g. prefering quicker feeling of tiredness to reduce movement, rather than breaking the laws of thermodynamics), holds onto fat more strongly, distorts feelings of hunger and satiety and food cravings. UK comedian Ed Gamble who lost a lot of weight jokingly commented about thin people "if you don't think about food, what are you thinking about literally all the time?". It's possible that wasn't joking and years of obsessively thinking about food engrained that as a pattern he will be stuck with for the rest of his life, when always-thin people can forget about food when thinking about other things.
  - gruez 4y ago
    >1950 had 10% of Americans being obese. Now 35% are. Has there been a decrease in weightlifting since then? A paucity of dieting? No, surely both of those are on record highs with gym memberships and Weightwatchers being so profitable. What about a collapse of discipline - through one of the most productive times in human history, today with lowest unemployment in 20 years? >[...] >Like: car dependent suburbia It seems weird to blame car dependent suburbia for the rise from 1950. Did "car dependent suburbia" really get worse compared to 1950? Given urbanization trends, you'd think that car dependence actually went down compared 1950.
    - BirdieNZ 4y ago
      1950s coincides with the post-war building boom (mostly suburbs), along with projects like the USA's interstate highways and similar highway building projects around the Western world. Car dependent suburbia definitely got worse around that time, from a combination of factors.
    - jodrellblank 4y ago
      In 1950 40% of people were living in the suburbs. Now 55% are[0]. And that's against a population growth from ~148M then to ~330M now, so 59M suburban people then compared to 180M now and corresponding pressure that would make on size of car parks, moving shops out of centers to places they can have larger car parks, combined with more households with car ownership since 1950 and more cars per household. More population needing more housing, houses trending larger suggests they are more likely suburban or rural than city center, meaning larger overall suburbs and therefore further to travel to get anywhere. Pew Research[2] says suburbs have grown 6.4 million people by migration from cities and rural populations between 2000 and 2018. Ten fastest growing communities in America in 2021 are suburbs[5]. Car companies made and sold about 58 million cars in the USA in the 1950s decade[3]. Eisenhower's interstate highway act was 1956, and miles of highway has increased by hundreds of thousands since 1990[4]. [0] https://www.insider.com/vintage-photos-levittown-suburbs-50s#everything-changed-in-the-1950s-when-soldiers-returned-from-world-war-ii-sparking-the-great-migration-to-the-suburbs-2 https://www.insider.com/vintage-photos-levittown-suburbs-50s... and https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2018/05/22/demographic-and-economic-trends-in-urban-suburban-and-rural-communities/ https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2018/05/22/demogra... [1] https://transportgeography.org/contents/chapter8/urban-transport-challenges/household-vehicles-united-states/ https://transportgeography.org/contents/chapter8/urban-trans... [2] https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/10/02/5-facts-about-u-s-suburbs/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/10/02/5-facts-abo... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_automobile_industry_in_the_1950s#Industry_sales https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_automobile_industry_i... [4] https://www.statista.com/statistics/183397/united-states-highway-mileage-since-1990/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/183397/united-states-hig... [5] https://legallysociable.com/2021/09/19/the-ten-fastest-growing-american-communities-are-all-suburbs-all-in-south-or-west/ https://legallysociable.com/2021/09/19/the-ten-fastest-growi...
kube-system 4y ago
My perception is the opposite. The US is a place where you absolutely can slap your beer gut and make a joke about “having a keg instead of a 6 pack” Perhaps your social circle doesn’t accept that attitude, but in some of the most obese parts of the country, the norm is to “eat some steak and potatoes and put some meat on your bones, skinny boy” There’s a reason doctors are afraid to tell patients they’re overweight. People interpret it as a personal attack on their choices rather than a medical diagnosis.
kweingar 4y ago
This really resonates with me. I spend a lot of time pathologizing my habits and preferences. The thought goes: If I am not doing things the way others do, I must be mentally ill somehow and in need of a cure.
scottLobster 4y ago
Sure it does. I don't know what part of America you live in, but one of my obese coworkers jokes he eats all the processed food "so the preservatives will keep him alive". Confident self-awareness goes a long way, although self-destructive behavior in general isn't respected, nor should it be IMO.
- rolisz 4y ago
  Hey, I used to make that joke all the time (even when I was normal weight)!
stametseater 4y ago
> It’s a social dance that makes people hide the personal truth that health isn’t the only thing that matters in life. How do this claim make you feel? "Alcoholism isn't objectively bad because for some people boozing matters more than health." Remember that being obese effects the people around you. Particularly, obese adults teach bad lifestyle lessons by example to their children, who in turn are more likely to be obese than other kids because of it. Having obese parents is even worse for a child's life expectancy than second hand smoke from chainsmoking parents.

wizofaus 4y ago

It might not be the only thing that matters, but once you lose your health, it's very hard to get much enjoyment out of anything else in life. Our bodies remind us constantly in no uncertain terms when they're not functioning well. I can't imagine anything I'd willingly sacrifice my health for, except in some extreme case like saving the lives of loved ones.

wkat4242 4y ago

It isn't the only thing in life of course. If you're healthy but living on the street it's not a very nice life. For me being obese is not really a choice. It's just really hard to do anything about it, especially because I tend to overeat when I encounter stress in life. And I'm not wired with the discipline to fix it. I often go on diets but they never last. Also, living alone cooking is a real chore and there's not enough ready made healthy food. And in terms of exercise I really hate team sports and mindless weight lifting. I do hike a bit though when the season permits. Are these excuses? Sure but if I could have changed it I would have.

jodrellblank 4y ago
This comment unpacks into a whole world of ideas around obesity which get pushed under the rug by just saying it's "your choice" and you need "discipline" and "diets" to fix it. Most thin people don't stay thin by discipline - or not much discipline. Most thin people don't stay thin by team sports and weightlifting. Most thin people aren't going on diets, ever. Most thin people aren't "choosing" to be thin, they have nature and nurture and culture and environment where thin is the result. 1950 had 10% of Americans being obese. Now 35% are. Has there been a decrease in weightlifting since then? A paucity of dieting? No, surely both of those are on record highs with gym memberships and Weightwatchers being so profitable. What about a collapse of discipline - through one of the most productive times in human history, today with lowest unemployment in 20 years? Like: car dependent suburbia. If you don't grow up walking to the shops with your parents, walking to the park to play, walking to school, cycling to school, walking or cycling to work; if your only exposure to movement is mandatory exercise at school which is unpleasant, what does that do to your lifelong views? If your environment doesn't have anywhere interesting to walk to, or any sidewalk to walk on, what does that do? Like: If your parents and family never moved except to get to the car, what kind of early mental expectations does that set you up with? Children try to imitate their parents, if the parents alway groan and complain about having to walk anywhere, that's some kind of lesson. Like: Livestrong.com says "The average restaurant meal is four times larger than it was in the 1950s. Similarly, the size of American-manufactured dinner plates has increased nearly 23 percent, from 9.6 inch". If you habitually eat out at restaurants and they gradually feed you more, more sugary, food, but you still have the "clean your plate to be polite" mentality, what does that do? Like: where did this idea of "healthy food" come from? "Health" isn't something in food. Like: where did the idea that cooking is "a real chore" come from? Can't one grow up to find preparing food a relaxing joy, an interest, an everyday part of life? Or learn to spend less time on it, e.g. meal prepping? Like: "I tend to overeat when I encounter stress in life" - Where does that behaviour come from? That's learned from somewhere, it isn't innate to cavepeople to have food on hand just in case life gets stressful, it's likely some family or community cultural habit where others might not do that. I think it was Paul Lutus in a Reddit AMA, someone asked him if he baked much when living in a cabin in the woods, and he said he found it difficult to resist eating baked goods so he just didn't make them or buy them. That kind of discipline is much easier than buying them, having them nearby, and trying to resist eating them every moment forever. > "Sure but if I could have changed it I would have." Perhaps you can't, there are suggestions that becoming obese screws up your body forever, so it burns less fat (e.g. prefering quicker feeling of tiredness to reduce movement, rather than breaking the laws of thermodynamics), holds onto fat more strongly, distorts feelings of hunger and satiety and food cravings. UK comedian Ed Gamble who lost a lot of weight jokingly commented about thin people "if you don't think about food, what are you thinking about literally all the time?". It's possible that wasn't joking and years of obsessively thinking about food engrained that as a pattern he will be stuck with for the rest of his life, when always-thin people can forget about food when thinking about other things.
- gruez 4y ago
  >1950 had 10% of Americans being obese. Now 35% are. Has there been a decrease in weightlifting since then? A paucity of dieting? No, surely both of those are on record highs with gym memberships and Weightwatchers being so profitable. What about a collapse of discipline - through one of the most productive times in human history, today with lowest unemployment in 20 years? >[...] >Like: car dependent suburbia It seems weird to blame car dependent suburbia for the rise from 1950. Did "car dependent suburbia" really get worse compared to 1950? Given urbanization trends, you'd think that car dependence actually went down compared 1950.
  - BirdieNZ 4y ago
    1950s coincides with the post-war building boom (mostly suburbs), along with projects like the USA's interstate highways and similar highway building projects around the Western world. Car dependent suburbia definitely got worse around that time, from a combination of factors.
  - jodrellblank 4y ago
    In 1950 40% of people were living in the suburbs. Now 55% are[0]. And that's against a population growth from ~148M then to ~330M now, so 59M suburban people then compared to 180M now and corresponding pressure that would make on size of car parks, moving shops out of centers to places they can have larger car parks, combined with more households with car ownership since 1950 and more cars per household. More population needing more housing, houses trending larger suggests they are more likely suburban or rural than city center, meaning larger overall suburbs and therefore further to travel to get anywhere. Pew Research[2] says suburbs have grown 6.4 million people by migration from cities and rural populations between 2000 and 2018. Ten fastest growing communities in America in 2021 are suburbs[5]. Car companies made and sold about 58 million cars in the USA in the 1950s decade[3]. Eisenhower's interstate highway act was 1956, and miles of highway has increased by hundreds of thousands since 1990[4]. [0] https://www.insider.com/vintage-photos-levittown-suburbs-50s#everything-changed-in-the-1950s-when-soldiers-returned-from-world-war-ii-sparking-the-great-migration-to-the-suburbs-2 https://www.insider.com/vintage-photos-levittown-suburbs-50s... and https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2018/05/22/demographic-and-economic-trends-in-urban-suburban-and-rural-communities/ https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2018/05/22/demogra... [1] https://transportgeography.org/contents/chapter8/urban-transport-challenges/household-vehicles-united-states/ https://transportgeography.org/contents/chapter8/urban-trans... [2] https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/10/02/5-facts-about-u-s-suburbs/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/10/02/5-facts-abo... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_automobile_industry_in_the_1950s#Industry_sales https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_automobile_industry_i... [4] https://www.statista.com/statistics/183397/united-states-highway-mileage-since-1990/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/183397/united-states-hig... [5] https://legallysociable.com/2021/09/19/the-ten-fastest-growing-american-communities-are-all-suburbs-all-in-south-or-west/ https://legallysociable.com/2021/09/19/the-ten-fastest-growi...

kube-system 4y ago

My perception is the opposite. The US is a place where you absolutely can slap your beer gut and make a joke about “having a keg instead of a 6 pack” Perhaps your social circle doesn’t accept that attitude, but in some of the most obese parts of the country, the norm is to “eat some steak and potatoes and put some meat on your bones, skinny boy” There’s a reason doctors are afraid to tell patients they’re overweight. People interpret it as a personal attack on their choices rather than a medical diagnosis.

kweingar 4y ago

This really resonates with me. I spend a lot of time pathologizing my habits and preferences. The thought goes: If I am not doing things the way others do, I must be mentally ill somehow and in need of a cure.

scottLobster 4y ago

Sure it does. I don't know what part of America you live in, but one of my obese coworkers jokes he eats all the processed food "so the preservatives will keep him alive". Confident self-awareness goes a long way, although self-destructive behavior in general isn't respected, nor should it be IMO.

rolisz 4y ago
Hey, I used to make that joke all the time (even when I was normal weight)!

stametseater 4y ago

> It’s a social dance that makes people hide the personal truth that health isn’t the only thing that matters in life. How do this claim make you feel? "Alcoholism isn't objectively bad because for some people boozing matters more than health." Remember that being obese effects the people around you. Particularly, obese adults teach bad lifestyle lessons by example to their children, who in turn are more likely to be obese than other kids because of it. Having obese parents is even worse for a child's life expectancy than second hand smoke from chainsmoking parents.