5 ms·

It does mean you can't fight it with little advocacy groups or well-meaning think tanks. According to history, you need a strong labor movement led by principle

It does mean you can't fight it with little advocacy groups or well-meaning think tanks. According to history, you need a strong labor movement led by principled socialists.

wpietri 4y ago
I think solving problems like corruption takes more than one thing, so I think false dichotomies are unhelpful.
- whitemary 4y ago
  What you call "corruption" is fundamental capitalism. In other words, there has never been and can never be a capitalist society without it. Thinking otherwise is capitalist utopianism. "The government" (or state) is part of capitalism. In fact, it is a critical component. There could be no capitalism without a state to enforce it. Libertarianism is not a coherent ideology; it is a disease of the intellect.
  - wpietri 4y ago
    I meant that as corruption from the perspective of the governmental system. Which either you knew perfectly well or we're talking past one another here, so either way I think I'm done.
JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> you need a strong labor movement led by principled socialists The “principled” qualifier works for anything, e.g. we need a strong bank regulator led by principled felons.
Bloating 4y ago
Competition does wonders to keep power in check, while improving value for consumers. Neither shareholders nor organized labor likes that feature. Almost all monopolies are the result of government interference
- Arainach 4y ago
  In the absence of regulation, all industries trend towards monopolies as big players block out and buy up competitors. Capitalism abhors competition.
throwayyy479087 4y ago
That won't happen with the current "socialist" movement. Socialism is about _all workers_, including those who have "chud" opinions. This is the largest group of workers, by a lot - White working class, Southern and Midwestern dudes. Look at the Far East and Europe - successful movements _do not_ bundle Drag Story Time and Workers Rights. Stalin was closer to Nick Fuentes than Biden. Same with Mao. As long as the first issue that the DSA cares about is trans rights, the DSA will continue to be a joke at best and potentially controlled opposition at worst.
lmm 4y ago
Ok, so who's out there actually fighting to e.g. legalise secondary action? Serious question.

It does mean you can't fight it with little advocacy groups or well-meaning think tanks. According to history, you need a strong labor movement led by principled socialists.

wpietri 4y ago

I think solving problems like corruption takes more than one thing, so I think false dichotomies are unhelpful.

whitemary 4y ago
What you call "corruption" is fundamental capitalism. In other words, there has never been and can never be a capitalist society without it. Thinking otherwise is capitalist utopianism. "The government" (or state) is part of capitalism. In fact, it is a critical component. There could be no capitalism without a state to enforce it. Libertarianism is not a coherent ideology; it is a disease of the intellect.
- wpietri 4y ago
  I meant that as corruption from the perspective of the governmental system. Which either you knew perfectly well or we're talking past one another here, so either way I think I'm done.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

> you need a strong labor movement led by principled socialists The “principled” qualifier works for anything, e.g. we need a strong bank regulator led by principled felons.

Bloating 4y ago

Competition does wonders to keep power in check, while improving value for consumers. Neither shareholders nor organized labor likes that feature. Almost all monopolies are the result of government interference

Arainach 4y ago
In the absence of regulation, all industries trend towards monopolies as big players block out and buy up competitors. Capitalism abhors competition.

throwayyy479087 4y ago

That won't happen with the current "socialist" movement. Socialism is about _all workers_, including those who have "chud" opinions. This is the largest group of workers, by a lot - White working class, Southern and Midwestern dudes. Look at the Far East and Europe - successful movements _do not_ bundle Drag Story Time and Workers Rights. Stalin was closer to Nick Fuentes than Biden. Same with Mao. As long as the first issue that the DSA cares about is trans rights, the DSA will continue to be a joke at best and potentially controlled opposition at worst.

lmm 4y ago

Ok, so who's out there actually fighting to e.g. legalise secondary action? Serious question.