4 ms·

The evidence is all out in the open now - there's really no hiding from it any more. In randomized control trials of the mRNA COVID-19 vaccines here in the UK,

The evidence is all out in the open now - there's really no hiding from it any more. In randomized control trials of the mRNA COVID-19 vaccines here in the UK, we now know the risk of serious adverse effects was 12.5 per 10,000 vaccinated i.e. a ~1 in 800 change of serious adverse effects: 22-Sep-22 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36055877/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36055877/ The UK government has now published its estimate of the number of people needed to vaccinate to prevent a COIVD-19 hospitalisation: 25-Jan-2023 https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1131409/appendix-1-of-jcvi-statement-on-2023-covid-19-vaccination-programme-8-november-2022.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... For example in the 20-29 year no-risk group, the number needed to vaccinate to prevent one hopitalisation is 168,200. To prevent one serious hospitalisation requiring oxygen or ventilation you would need to vaccinate 706,500. Even in the at-risk group for 20-29 years, the numbers are 7500 and 59,500 respectively. In fact there was no group except for 70+ where the risk of hospitalisation (not severe requiring oxygen), came close to the risk associate with vaccine injury. It's for this reason, that these mRNA vaccines are no longer being offered by the NHS. Look - I'm sorry you were lied to, but at some point you've just go to hold your hands up and admit the truth of the matter. Edit: plenty of downvotes, but no refutation.

ramraj07 4y ago
Here’s your refutation: many of these results confound pre omicron Covid with omicron Covid - the former was 10-100x deadlier, and totally warranted global mandating of the vaccines even with the published SAR rates. After omicron, it is absolutely true that the adverse reaction rate from mRNA vaccines might not be worth the benefit of avoiding the relatively less fatal omicron variant diseases for young individuals. I will agree that regulatory agencies and many pro vaccine arguments are doing a disservice by not being thorough about such distinctions. That doesn’t mean the choices made pre omicron were invalidated. The mRNA vaccines did a great job and did them in time to protect millions more lives from being lost.
notahacker 4y ago
You're comparing apples with oranges. The majority of the serious adverse effects reported in the original trials the first paper rehashes (15.1 effects per 10000 above a 6.4 effect per 10000 placebo baseline with some people reporting multiple effects, after the authors stripped out SAE's where the placebo group reported worse outcomes...) did not involve hospitalisation, never mind intubation. And a significant proportion of COVID infections that do not require hospitalisation (i.e not counted in the NNV metric) nevertheless involve serious adverse effects including both those credibly associated with vaccine side effects but more commonly in symptomatic COVID patients (myocarditis) and those not thought to have any association with the vaccine such as long term brain fog. The vaccines were found to have a high efficacy at reducing these types of symptomatic infections though.... More generally and unfortunately for the cranks, its noticeable that excess deaths and hospitalisation peaks follow COVID infection spikes, not the ramp up of vaccinations, and have declined considerably since the vaccination programmes began. It's almost like the professionals know better than someone who thinks influenza is a coronavirus...

ramraj07 4y ago

Here’s your refutation: many of these results confound pre omicron Covid with omicron Covid - the former was 10-100x deadlier, and totally warranted global mandating of the vaccines even with the published SAR rates. After omicron, it is absolutely true that the adverse reaction rate from mRNA vaccines might not be worth the benefit of avoiding the relatively less fatal omicron variant diseases for young individuals. I will agree that regulatory agencies and many pro vaccine arguments are doing a disservice by not being thorough about such distinctions. That doesn’t mean the choices made pre omicron were invalidated. The mRNA vaccines did a great job and did them in time to protect millions more lives from being lost.

notahacker 4y ago

You're comparing apples with oranges. The majority of the serious adverse effects reported in the original trials the first paper rehashes (15.1 effects per 10000 above a 6.4 effect per 10000 placebo baseline with some people reporting multiple effects, after the authors stripped out SAE's where the placebo group reported worse outcomes...) did not involve hospitalisation, never mind intubation. And a significant proportion of COVID infections that do not require hospitalisation (i.e not counted in the NNV metric) nevertheless involve serious adverse effects including both those credibly associated with vaccine side effects but more commonly in symptomatic COVID patients (myocarditis) and those not thought to have any association with the vaccine such as long term brain fog. The vaccines were found to have a high efficacy at reducing these types of symptomatic infections though.... More generally and unfortunately for the cranks, its noticeable that excess deaths and hospitalisation peaks follow COVID infection spikes, not the ramp up of vaccinations, and have declined considerably since the vaccination programmes began. It's almost like the professionals know better than someone who thinks influenza is a coronavirus...