3 ms·

1/1000 people are dead in the US. Much more in places like in India. And yet here we are people still underplaying it. It’s amazing seeing rewriting of history

1/1000 people are dead in the US. Much more in places like in India. And yet here we are people still underplaying it. It’s amazing seeing rewriting of history right in front of your eyes for sure.

realjhol 4y ago
As I say, most of those are in extremely elderly or obese category.
- parasubvert 4y ago
  This is a misunderstanding of how statistics work, and part of the lie that Covid is an old people and obese person’s problem. Not that you’re directly making this argument, but for posterity: It’s not just their problem. Unless you feel cardiology and oncology are also old and fat people’s problems, since they die more of cancer and heart disease? The extremely elderly and obese die of all causes disproportionately. But Covid lowers life expectancy and increases mortality of all age groups starting around age 30 even after all mitigating measures (vaccines, masks, etc) are taken in to account. The young lower their own life expectancy when they betray an inter-generational commitment to the older generations to take care of them. This won’t be the last pandemic, and the young won’t always be young.
  - realjhol 4y ago
    We have no idea what the long term effects of COVID-19 infection will be, however there's no reason to think the long-term impact will be any different from any other coronavirus flu. And given that the virus is endemic, and the vaccines only provided fleeting protection (they're not even being offered by the NHS here in the UK any more), we'll all get it sooner or later. There's no choice about it. Fortunately for the vast majority of people, COVID-19 is a mild disease that they will recover from quickly.
    - parasubvert 4y ago
      You have no idea what you’re talking about and are spreading misinformation. 1. SARS-CoV-2 is not influenza. 2. Influenza is not a coronavirus. 3. Influenza usually kills 300,000-500,000 people annually 4. Consensus estimates of excess deaths from COVID-19 are 14 million over the two years of 2020-2021. 2022 isn’t looking great either. 5. All developed countries highly recommend the annual Influenza vaccine even with its variable annual efficacy, as a way of lowering the intensity and spread. The same will likely continue in many countries for COVID-19, where the recent Bivalent vaccines show reduced but still significant effectiveness against the recent variants of SARS-CoV-2. 6. COVID-19 has raised all cause mortality and lowers life expectancy across all age groups starting before middle age. 7. The UK NHS continues to offer standard two dose and 3rd shot booster COVID-19 vaccines (all mRNA now) for children over aged 5 and adults. This has not stopped. Beyond this, they’ve limited additional boosters to seasonal programs for target populations that are at greater risk. They had one in the Autumn of 2022 and is staring a new one for Spring of 2023 for the immunocompromised and elderly (75+). The UK also signed a deal with Moderna to begin producing mRNA vaccines within the UK by 2025. The vast majority of the UK population have COVID antibodies and are at far less risk than they were in 2020, but this continues to be monitored and may require broader seasonal vaccination campaigns if immunity wanes. 8. As with any disease vector there always is a choice to use mitigations such as masks in crowded indoor spaces, vaccinations, etc. to lower the spread. This is something other countries learned decades ago.
      - realjhol 4y ago
        > You have no idea what you’re talking about and are spreading misinformation. I actually do know what I'm talking about. > 1. SARS-CoV-2 is not influenza. > 2. Influenza is not a coronavirus. I know. It's a flu-like respiratory illness from a class of illnesses that humans face every season. > 5. All developed countries highly recommend the annual Influenza vaccine even with its variable annual efficacy, as a way of lowering the intensity and spread. No they don't. The UK does not offer flu vaccine for anyone except member of vulnerable groups, young children or medical workers. > 6. COVID-19 has raised all cause mortality and lowers life expectancy across all age groups starting before middle age. The all cause mortality has risen. There's every indication that this is due to the mRNA vaccines. > Beyond this, they’ve limited additional boosters to seasonal programs for target populations that are at greater risk. Any why are they doing that? It's because the likelihood of hospitalisation due to a vaccine injury (1 in 800) [1] is greater than the liklihood of being spared from a hospitalisation due to COVID [2] in every age category except 70+. [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36055877/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36055877/ [2] https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1131409/appendix-1-of-jcvi-statement-on-2023-covid-19-vaccination-programme-8-november-2022.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... > The vast majority of the UK population have COVID antibodies and are at far less risk than they were in 2020 The vast majority of the UK population were at minimal risk of COVID to begin with. I myself recovered from it in less than a day. 8. As with any disease vector there always is a choice to use mitigations such as masks in crowded indoor spaces, vaccinations, etc. to lower the spread. This is something other countries learned decades ago. As the Danish mask study shows, the mask mandates were nothing more than securiy theater. The vaccines only offer fleeting protection of a few weeks, so it's not possible to keep the population on a 3-monthly treadmill of boosters. > This is something other countries learned decades ago. No the UK had a policy that explicitly recommended against mask mandates - especially paper and cloth masks.
  - concordDance 4y ago
    > The young lower their own life expectancy when they betray an inter-generational commitment to the older generations to take care of them I get what you're trying to say, but this isn't the correct argument for it. Social precedent relies on people not having any excuses that allow special-casing, which obviously doesn't apply here.
    - hoseja 4y ago
      The "commitment" is already betrayed wherever eternal pyramid growth bumps up against reality.
jimbob45 4y ago
Doesn’t the US have a population of 330 million? And I think we’re at a million dead from COVID? So 1 in 330, right? Of course, taking into account time, population turnover, and tourists, the ratio may actually be closer to yours depending on how we decide to design the metric.

1/1000 people are dead in the US. Much more in places like in India. And yet here we are people still underplaying it. It’s amazing seeing rewriting of history right in front of your eyes for sure.

realjhol 4y ago

As I say, most of those are in extremely elderly or obese category.

parasubvert 4y ago
This is a misunderstanding of how statistics work, and part of the lie that Covid is an old people and obese person’s problem. Not that you’re directly making this argument, but for posterity: It’s not just their problem. Unless you feel cardiology and oncology are also old and fat people’s problems, since they die more of cancer and heart disease? The extremely elderly and obese die of all causes disproportionately. But Covid lowers life expectancy and increases mortality of all age groups starting around age 30 even after all mitigating measures (vaccines, masks, etc) are taken in to account. The young lower their own life expectancy when they betray an inter-generational commitment to the older generations to take care of them. This won’t be the last pandemic, and the young won’t always be young.
- realjhol 4y ago
  We have no idea what the long term effects of COVID-19 infection will be, however there's no reason to think the long-term impact will be any different from any other coronavirus flu. And given that the virus is endemic, and the vaccines only provided fleeting protection (they're not even being offered by the NHS here in the UK any more), we'll all get it sooner or later. There's no choice about it. Fortunately for the vast majority of people, COVID-19 is a mild disease that they will recover from quickly.
  - parasubvert 4y ago
    You have no idea what you’re talking about and are spreading misinformation. 1. SARS-CoV-2 is not influenza. 2. Influenza is not a coronavirus. 3. Influenza usually kills 300,000-500,000 people annually 4. Consensus estimates of excess deaths from COVID-19 are 14 million over the two years of 2020-2021. 2022 isn’t looking great either. 5. All developed countries highly recommend the annual Influenza vaccine even with its variable annual efficacy, as a way of lowering the intensity and spread. The same will likely continue in many countries for COVID-19, where the recent Bivalent vaccines show reduced but still significant effectiveness against the recent variants of SARS-CoV-2. 6. COVID-19 has raised all cause mortality and lowers life expectancy across all age groups starting before middle age. 7. The UK NHS continues to offer standard two dose and 3rd shot booster COVID-19 vaccines (all mRNA now) for children over aged 5 and adults. This has not stopped. Beyond this, they’ve limited additional boosters to seasonal programs for target populations that are at greater risk. They had one in the Autumn of 2022 and is staring a new one for Spring of 2023 for the immunocompromised and elderly (75+). The UK also signed a deal with Moderna to begin producing mRNA vaccines within the UK by 2025. The vast majority of the UK population have COVID antibodies and are at far less risk than they were in 2020, but this continues to be monitored and may require broader seasonal vaccination campaigns if immunity wanes. 8. As with any disease vector there always is a choice to use mitigations such as masks in crowded indoor spaces, vaccinations, etc. to lower the spread. This is something other countries learned decades ago.
    - realjhol 4y ago
      > You have no idea what you’re talking about and are spreading misinformation. I actually do know what I'm talking about. > 1. SARS-CoV-2 is not influenza. > 2. Influenza is not a coronavirus. I know. It's a flu-like respiratory illness from a class of illnesses that humans face every season. > 5. All developed countries highly recommend the annual Influenza vaccine even with its variable annual efficacy, as a way of lowering the intensity and spread. No they don't. The UK does not offer flu vaccine for anyone except member of vulnerable groups, young children or medical workers. > 6. COVID-19 has raised all cause mortality and lowers life expectancy across all age groups starting before middle age. The all cause mortality has risen. There's every indication that this is due to the mRNA vaccines. > Beyond this, they’ve limited additional boosters to seasonal programs for target populations that are at greater risk. Any why are they doing that? It's because the likelihood of hospitalisation due to a vaccine injury (1 in 800) [1] is greater than the liklihood of being spared from a hospitalisation due to COVID [2] in every age category except 70+. [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36055877/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36055877/ [2] https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1131409/appendix-1-of-jcvi-statement-on-2023-covid-19-vaccination-programme-8-november-2022.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... > The vast majority of the UK population have COVID antibodies and are at far less risk than they were in 2020 The vast majority of the UK population were at minimal risk of COVID to begin with. I myself recovered from it in less than a day. 8. As with any disease vector there always is a choice to use mitigations such as masks in crowded indoor spaces, vaccinations, etc. to lower the spread. This is something other countries learned decades ago. As the Danish mask study shows, the mask mandates were nothing more than securiy theater. The vaccines only offer fleeting protection of a few weeks, so it's not possible to keep the population on a 3-monthly treadmill of boosters. > This is something other countries learned decades ago. No the UK had a policy that explicitly recommended against mask mandates - especially paper and cloth masks.
- concordDance 4y ago
  > The young lower their own life expectancy when they betray an inter-generational commitment to the older generations to take care of them I get what you're trying to say, but this isn't the correct argument for it. Social precedent relies on people not having any excuses that allow special-casing, which obviously doesn't apply here.
  - hoseja 4y ago
    The "commitment" is already betrayed wherever eternal pyramid growth bumps up against reality.

jimbob45 4y ago

Doesn’t the US have a population of 330 million? And I think we’re at a million dead from COVID? So 1 in 330, right? Of course, taking into account time, population turnover, and tourists, the ratio may actually be closer to yours depending on how we decide to design the metric.