3 ms·

>And since people need money to live And now we're getting to the actual root of the problem.

by waboremo 4y ago

kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 4y ago
If you make it so people don't need money to live, they'll invent a new currency. People are hardwired to barter.
- waboremo 4y ago
  That's not even remotely true. Nothing about us is inherent to bartering. That's of course relying on the assumption that we would get rid of money entirely as the only solution.
  - b112 4y ago
    Bartering is an offshoot of "fairness". Even dogs, crows get upset, if treated unfairly. There are experiments where giving desired treats, unfairly, causes these animals(monkeys too), to exhibit outrage. EG, giving some to one animal, and less desirable treats to another. Bartering is an offshoot of "being fair". I "worked" to make this thing, but now I need a thing you have. You worked for it. Each of us spent time, effort, work, but how much, who spent more? We negotiate. We settle. This is bartering. And at the root of this, is fairness. And even animals, inherently, know this.
    - anonymouskimmer 4y ago
      Right. Tax, whether to a government, or to an employer, is the beginnings of unfairness. Taxes can be used for fairness (enforced savings for everyone for the winter), and as a form of barter (military protection), but the value gained by singular authorities makes things disproportionately unfair. I guess maybe the taxation is not the problem, it's the centralization of the taxed wealth to particular figures in the government (nobles) or corporations (shareholders and executives).
    - kubanczyk 4y ago
      > giving desired treats, unfairly, causes these animals(monkeys too), to exhibit outrage This mechanism might stem from offspring times when they were receiving food/care from parents. I wouldn't connect it with barter, as these species do not exchange any goods.
fuzzfactor 4y ago
You don't have to go all the way back in time to the root to reach the point where it cost so much less to live, that things which were within reach for the ambitious individual are now out of the question due to the exorbitant cost of living itself today by comparison.
- sohtym 4y ago
  Which is exactly why it costs so much to live. That is how markets work, by allocating opportunities to those with the most money.

>And since people need money to live And now we're getting to the actual root of the problem.

kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 4y ago

If you make it so people don't need money to live, they'll invent a new currency. People are hardwired to barter.

waboremo 4y ago
That's not even remotely true. Nothing about us is inherent to bartering. That's of course relying on the assumption that we would get rid of money entirely as the only solution.
- b112 4y ago
  Bartering is an offshoot of "fairness". Even dogs, crows get upset, if treated unfairly. There are experiments where giving desired treats, unfairly, causes these animals(monkeys too), to exhibit outrage. EG, giving some to one animal, and less desirable treats to another. Bartering is an offshoot of "being fair". I "worked" to make this thing, but now I need a thing you have. You worked for it. Each of us spent time, effort, work, but how much, who spent more? We negotiate. We settle. This is bartering. And at the root of this, is fairness. And even animals, inherently, know this.
  - anonymouskimmer 4y ago
    Right. Tax, whether to a government, or to an employer, is the beginnings of unfairness. Taxes can be used for fairness (enforced savings for everyone for the winter), and as a form of barter (military protection), but the value gained by singular authorities makes things disproportionately unfair. I guess maybe the taxation is not the problem, it's the centralization of the taxed wealth to particular figures in the government (nobles) or corporations (shareholders and executives).
  - kubanczyk 4y ago
    > giving desired treats, unfairly, causes these animals(monkeys too), to exhibit outrage This mechanism might stem from offspring times when they were receiving food/care from parents. I wouldn't connect it with barter, as these species do not exchange any goods.

fuzzfactor 4y ago

You don't have to go all the way back in time to the root to reach the point where it cost so much less to live, that things which were within reach for the ambitious individual are now out of the question due to the exorbitant cost of living itself today by comparison.

sohtym 4y ago
Which is exactly why it costs so much to live. That is how markets work, by allocating opportunities to those with the most money.