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> We need to stop what we're doing and actually work with the ecologies we have to produce enough food for everyone. This is that. Dairy cows can’t “scale” to

> We need to stop what we're doing and actually work with the ecologies we have to produce enough food for everyone. This is that. Dairy cows can’t “scale” to meet a population like ours that keeps growing. They’re enormously inefficient. Agriculture has always been an exercise in optimising to feed growing populations, like when farmers grafted different variations of plant/fruit together to create hybrids. At the time you’d have easily described that as creating a Frankenstein monster. Today we’re just using more advanced tools.

Mistletoe 4y ago
Our population isn’t really growing though. We are actually facing a population growth crisis in the USA and most other developed countries. Malthus seems to have been very wrong and human populations curb their reproduction and don’t just do exponential growth forever. https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2021/12/us-population-grew-in-2021-slowest-rate-since-founding-of-the-nation.html https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2021/12/us-population...
- lentil_soup 4y ago
  Ok, but the USA is not the entire world where it is growing
Amezarak 4y ago
Dairy cows do scale. Stop ethanol production and drop soybeans (not part of US diet until recently) and fill the plains with cows. Note they do need to be managed carefully - keep tightly packed herds and don’t allow free range grazing. Bonus: the topsoil comes back. We stop polluting watersheds with pesticides. We have a healthier diet. Seeking efficiency in the food supply is exactly the problem destroying the environment, human health, and will eventually lead to a systems collapse and famine.
- ibn_khaldun 4y ago
  You seem to have thought this through well. It feels like real dairy is being listed as a necessary casualty to technological/industrial progress at scale and the solutions, such as those that you're introducing, disrupt this sort of progress and its intended benefits. This sort of frustrates me (the theoretical demise of real dairy). I'm picky about my dairy selection as is, but I don't find any comfort in fake dairy (I'm not referring plant, or oat, or nut milk per se, rather lab grown ingredients and anything else that is fermented, stabilized, etc.). I have my own gripes with the dairy industry, but the mere thought of synthetic alternatives becoming the norm irritates me. How all of this is made to become appealing only upsets me further. I want to get off of this ride!

Mistletoe 4y ago

Our population isn’t really growing though. We are actually facing a population growth crisis in the USA and most other developed countries. Malthus seems to have been very wrong and human populations curb their reproduction and don’t just do exponential growth forever. https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2021/12/us-population-grew-in-2021-slowest-rate-since-founding-of-the-nation.html https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2021/12/us-population...

lentil_soup 4y ago
Ok, but the USA is not the entire world where it is growing

Amezarak 4y ago

Dairy cows do scale. Stop ethanol production and drop soybeans (not part of US diet until recently) and fill the plains with cows. Note they do need to be managed carefully - keep tightly packed herds and don’t allow free range grazing. Bonus: the topsoil comes back. We stop polluting watersheds with pesticides. We have a healthier diet. Seeking efficiency in the food supply is exactly the problem destroying the environment, human health, and will eventually lead to a systems collapse and famine.

ibn_khaldun 4y ago
You seem to have thought this through well. It feels like real dairy is being listed as a necessary casualty to technological/industrial progress at scale and the solutions, such as those that you're introducing, disrupt this sort of progress and its intended benefits. This sort of frustrates me (the theoretical demise of real dairy). I'm picky about my dairy selection as is, but I don't find any comfort in fake dairy (I'm not referring plant, or oat, or nut milk per se, rather lab grown ingredients and anything else that is fermented, stabilized, etc.). I have my own gripes with the dairy industry, but the mere thought of synthetic alternatives becoming the norm irritates me. How all of this is made to become appealing only upsets me further. I want to get off of this ride!