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> personal space with a door, which most companies can't afford A company that cannot afford proper offices is probably not creating much value. Big tech compa

> personal space with a door, which most companies can't afford A company that cannot afford proper offices is probably not creating much value. Big tech companies can afford offices. They choose to allocate capital differently. When I ran a consultancy, I spent a lot of rent of making sure my employees had both proper offices where they could think and common areas where they could collaborate. Doing otherwise is foolish.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
rootsudo 4y ago
>When I ran a consultancy, I spent a lot of rent of making sure my employees had both proper offices where they could think and common areas where they could collaborate. Doing otherwise is foolish. Looking back, wouldn't it have made more sense to not spend alot on rent and let the employees work at home? Granted, no common areas to collaborate.
- trenchgun 4y ago
  It is very impartant to have live collaboration possibility. Also working from home is not as productive.
  - devjab 4y ago
    > Also working from home is not as productive. I'd like to see your data on that. When covid hit and sent everyone home I was working in the Danish public sector and we saw an increase in productivity. People worked less hours, or at least, they were using their computers for less hours, but they delivered more. It probably would've lead to reforms if it wasn't because the employee satisfaction didn't do equally well. As you might imagine, covid was hard on middle managers, but it also turned out that quite a lot of employees (public sector might be very different than tech) got very lonely while working from home every day.
    - throwuwu 4y ago
      > it also turned out that quite a lot of employees (public sector might be very different than tech) got very lonely while working from home every day. There’s your answer, demoralized employees are unproductive.
      - coldtea 4y ago
        Let's give them commutes, and have them on an open plan or cubicles, that should boost their morale!
        msm_ 4y ago
        Commuting (I usually bike) and meeting with my teammates in person does wonders to my morale indeed.
        mwest217 4y ago
        For me, who’s made the decision to live 1.1 miles from the office, my commute (either biking or walking) is a positive benefit. During Covid WFH I would try to get out for a similar length of walk in the morning, but it’s better for my brain to get into work mode by actually traveling to a different space.
        nec4b 4y ago
        You do realize it's physically impossible for everyone to live so close to the office?
        TheHappyOddish 4y ago
        And because of this nobody should be allowed to commute?
      - raydev 4y ago
        Might have also been that recreational places were mostly closed or on limited hours, and many people forced into working from home didn't have adequate physical space or time management habits to create boundaries.
  - coldtea 4y ago
    Citation needed
- mcculley 4y ago
  It makes more sense now. Back then we did not have as many good tools for remote collaboration. My business had certain other constraints that made physical space necessary.
imiric 4y ago
Come on, realistically, no company can afford private offices for all their workforce. Even for roles that do require complete concentration like programming, it's not feasible to expect even Big Tech companies to foot the bill. The infrastructure cost alone would be astronomical. Such buildings just don't scale, and the setup couldn't keep up with the growth rate. So at best, they can have private offices for tech leads, managers and senior staff, but this undeniably goes against the "flat" organizational structure some companies like to virtue signal. What can be much more manageable is to have comfortable cubicles for everyone (not the cramped desks with dividers, which is what probably gave cubicles the bad rep), and also have many small and large meeting rooms where people can congregate and collaborate in. This has the benefit of defaulting to semi-private workspaces which can easily scale, and moves the noisy collaborative areas to closed rooms, so that they don't bother anyone else. The smaller rooms could even serve as rotating private offices, if needed, that anyone can book for a limited period of time. But the open floor office only has practical drawbacks, and definitely has to go. It only got popular because it's really the cheapest option for companies; just place some desks, chairs and monitors in a huge space, and sell it as "collaborative". But if they really want to entice people to come back to the office, they need to invest in better working conditions.
- photonbeam 4y ago
  How much does an office actually cost in real $? Some companies like Microsoft routinely provided them
- mcculley 4y ago
  > no company can afford private offices for all their workforce Go visit any good law firm or CPA firm. I benefit from my equity holdings in tech companies. They are choosing to give that money to me in valuation instead of building out proper offices.
  - imiric 4y ago
    > Go visit any good law firm or CPA firm. Do these companies hire thousands of employees a year? I doubt that. Private offices for everyone just doesn't scale at the same growth rate of tech companies. Where would they realistically fit thousands of new employees per year if everyone had their own office? > I benefit from my equity holdings in tech companies. They are choosing to give that money to me in valuation instead of building out proper offices. And you expect the buildings to just magically expand for new employees? I'd rather not take a pay cut, and "settle" for comfortable cubicles. Or better yet, work remotely, and get a raise from the money the company is saving on not having to pay for my office space.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

rootsudo 4y ago

>When I ran a consultancy, I spent a lot of rent of making sure my employees had both proper offices where they could think and common areas where they could collaborate. Doing otherwise is foolish. Looking back, wouldn't it have made more sense to not spend alot on rent and let the employees work at home? Granted, no common areas to collaborate.

trenchgun 4y ago
It is very impartant to have live collaboration possibility. Also working from home is not as productive.
- devjab 4y ago
  > Also working from home is not as productive. I'd like to see your data on that. When covid hit and sent everyone home I was working in the Danish public sector and we saw an increase in productivity. People worked less hours, or at least, they were using their computers for less hours, but they delivered more. It probably would've lead to reforms if it wasn't because the employee satisfaction didn't do equally well. As you might imagine, covid was hard on middle managers, but it also turned out that quite a lot of employees (public sector might be very different than tech) got very lonely while working from home every day.
  - throwuwu 4y ago
    > it also turned out that quite a lot of employees (public sector might be very different than tech) got very lonely while working from home every day. There’s your answer, demoralized employees are unproductive.
    - coldtea 4y ago
      Let's give them commutes, and have them on an open plan or cubicles, that should boost their morale!
      - msm_ 4y ago
        Commuting (I usually bike) and meeting with my teammates in person does wonders to my morale indeed.
      - mwest217 4y ago
        For me, who’s made the decision to live 1.1 miles from the office, my commute (either biking or walking) is a positive benefit. During Covid WFH I would try to get out for a similar length of walk in the morning, but it’s better for my brain to get into work mode by actually traveling to a different space.
        nec4b 4y ago
        You do realize it's physically impossible for everyone to live so close to the office?
        TheHappyOddish 4y ago
        And because of this nobody should be allowed to commute?
    - raydev 4y ago
      Might have also been that recreational places were mostly closed or on limited hours, and many people forced into working from home didn't have adequate physical space or time management habits to create boundaries.
- coldtea 4y ago
  Citation needed
mcculley 4y ago
It makes more sense now. Back then we did not have as many good tools for remote collaboration. My business had certain other constraints that made physical space necessary.

imiric 4y ago

Come on, realistically, no company can afford private offices for all their workforce. Even for roles that do require complete concentration like programming, it's not feasible to expect even Big Tech companies to foot the bill. The infrastructure cost alone would be astronomical. Such buildings just don't scale, and the setup couldn't keep up with the growth rate. So at best, they can have private offices for tech leads, managers and senior staff, but this undeniably goes against the "flat" organizational structure some companies like to virtue signal. What can be much more manageable is to have comfortable cubicles for everyone (not the cramped desks with dividers, which is what probably gave cubicles the bad rep), and also have many small and large meeting rooms where people can congregate and collaborate in. This has the benefit of defaulting to semi-private workspaces which can easily scale, and moves the noisy collaborative areas to closed rooms, so that they don't bother anyone else. The smaller rooms could even serve as rotating private offices, if needed, that anyone can book for a limited period of time. But the open floor office only has practical drawbacks, and definitely has to go. It only got popular because it's really the cheapest option for companies; just place some desks, chairs and monitors in a huge space, and sell it as "collaborative". But if they really want to entice people to come back to the office, they need to invest in better working conditions.

photonbeam 4y ago
How much does an office actually cost in real $? Some companies like Microsoft routinely provided them
mcculley 4y ago
> no company can afford private offices for all their workforce Go visit any good law firm or CPA firm. I benefit from my equity holdings in tech companies. They are choosing to give that money to me in valuation instead of building out proper offices.
- imiric 4y ago
  > Go visit any good law firm or CPA firm. Do these companies hire thousands of employees a year? I doubt that. Private offices for everyone just doesn't scale at the same growth rate of tech companies. Where would they realistically fit thousands of new employees per year if everyone had their own office? > I benefit from my equity holdings in tech companies. They are choosing to give that money to me in valuation instead of building out proper offices. And you expect the buildings to just magically expand for new employees? I'd rather not take a pay cut, and "settle" for comfortable cubicles. Or better yet, work remotely, and get a raise from the money the company is saving on not having to pay for my office space.