5 ms·

This is a very common and popular-on-the-Internet stance. I have worked in open office environments for ~10 years and I have not realized how unpleasant it is.

by Maro 4y ago

thaumasiotes 4y ago
I am one of the most introverted people around, but I also don't really see why open offices are supposed to be so bad. I've had a cubicle; it was not obviously better. Now, if the choice is office (any) vs remote, I see why offices are so bad.
- dijit 4y ago
  Context matters. An open office with 6 people? Likely fine. Now put 2 of those people on calls all day. Remove any sound isolation, dividers, drop-ceiling (it looks cool to have the warehouse look with exposed air ducting!), and give them hardwood floors. Is it still pleasant? Now make it 60 people instead, and make the heavy callers 20 of those. -- Offices are contextual, I have had offices that are 8 people properly spaced out with a couple of sound baffles in the room and they were described as "open". I've also been thrown into a room where I was shoulder-to-shoulder with my nearest neighbours in a room that supposedly sat 45 people, with no drop ceiling, no dividers and hardwood floors... which was also described as "open".
  - thaumasiotes 4y ago
    You're describing things that just aren't problems. The sound of people walking on floors is not more disturbing than the sound of sirens going by outside. It's not disturbing at all; it's background noise.
    - dijit 4y ago
      This is so far away from my perspective that it's genuinely shocking. My gut reaction to your comment is outrage honestly. Footsteps approaching definitely distract me, 100%, every time, especially if they're distinct footsteps like heels or boots with a solid sole on hard wood. I don't suffer any known cognitive conditions, perhaps ADHD (but I am not diagnosed). If it is ADHD then that affects a DIAGNOSED 13% of humanity[0], and far more people are undiagnosed, though we get better every year at diagnosing it. So if I have ADHD and this is the cause then I am far from alone here. However, in Coffee Shop settings I can tune out the background, I have less anxiety from being disturbed, watched or expected to listen in. So, take from that what you will I guess. [0]: https://chadd.org/about-adhd/general-prevalence/ https://chadd.org/about-adhd/general-prevalence/
      - thaumasiotes 4y ago
        Well, your considered position of "these wouldn't be problems if I weren't in an office, but if they occur in an office the only reasonable response is to FLIP OUT" is not especially convincing to me.
        dijit 4y ago
        Excuse me. Can you please point to where I said I would flip out in an office? You're making a really large inference and honestly I don't really appreciate that. In my situation: I suffer some amount of anxiety from being disturbed and because of that I cannot focus, I am always "on edge" waiting for something to happen in any direction of someone trying to get my attention. I don't flip out. I suffer silently, and I only discuss it in one-on-ones or on forums such as this. Which makes people think that this is not a problem- but it is a problem, because I must focus in order to get my work done. So instead of doing it in the office, I go home and do my actual work in my "free" time, and in the office I used to mostly procrastinate or do tasks that were urgent or took less than 15 minutes.
        thaumasiotes 4y ago
        > Excuse me. Can you please point to where I said I would flip out in an office? Here: > My gut reaction to your comment* is outrage honestly. > I cannot focus, I am always "on edge" waiting for something to happen in any direction of someone trying to get my attention. > I suffer silently, and I only discuss it in one-on-ones or on forums such as this. Which makes people think that this is not a problem- but it is a problem, because I must focus in order to get my work done. > So instead of doing it in the office, I go home and do my actual work in my "free" time, and in the office I used to mostly procrastinate > in Coffee Shop settings I can tune out the background It is a little weird that much of your most explicit discussion of flipping out comes from the same comment where you insist that you don't flip out. That you don't vocalize your histrionics doesn't mean you're not having them. Throwing an internal fit and refusing to work is flipping out. Feeling outraged that someone might point out that open offices are objectively not bad is flipping out. By the time you've admitted that you have no problem working in a Starbucks, you've also admitted that whatever your problem with your office is, it's not related to the working conditions.

This is a very common and popular-on-the-Internet stance. I have worked in open office environments for ~10 years and I have not realized how unpleasant it is.

by Maro 4y ago

This is a very common and popular-on-the-Internet stance. I have worked in open office environments for ~10 years and I have not realized how unpleasant it is.

thaumasiotes 4y ago

I am one of the most introverted people around, but I also don't really see why open offices are supposed to be so bad. I've had a cubicle; it was not obviously better. Now, if the choice is office (any) vs remote, I see why offices are so bad.

dijit 4y ago
Context matters. An open office with 6 people? Likely fine. Now put 2 of those people on calls all day. Remove any sound isolation, dividers, drop-ceiling (it looks cool to have the warehouse look with exposed air ducting!), and give them hardwood floors. Is it still pleasant? Now make it 60 people instead, and make the heavy callers 20 of those. -- Offices are contextual, I have had offices that are 8 people properly spaced out with a couple of sound baffles in the room and they were described as "open". I've also been thrown into a room where I was shoulder-to-shoulder with my nearest neighbours in a room that supposedly sat 45 people, with no drop ceiling, no dividers and hardwood floors... which was also described as "open".
- thaumasiotes 4y ago
  You're describing things that just aren't problems. The sound of people walking on floors is not more disturbing than the sound of sirens going by outside. It's not disturbing at all; it's background noise.
  - dijit 4y ago
    This is so far away from my perspective that it's genuinely shocking. My gut reaction to your comment is outrage honestly. Footsteps approaching definitely distract me, 100%, every time, especially if they're distinct footsteps like heels or boots with a solid sole on hard wood. I don't suffer any known cognitive conditions, perhaps ADHD (but I am not diagnosed). If it is ADHD then that affects a DIAGNOSED 13% of humanity[0], and far more people are undiagnosed, though we get better every year at diagnosing it. So if I have ADHD and this is the cause then I am far from alone here. However, in Coffee Shop settings I can tune out the background, I have less anxiety from being disturbed, watched or expected to listen in. So, take from that what you will I guess. [0]: https://chadd.org/about-adhd/general-prevalence/ https://chadd.org/about-adhd/general-prevalence/
    - thaumasiotes 4y ago
      Well, your considered position of "these wouldn't be problems if I weren't in an office, but if they occur in an office the only reasonable response is to FLIP OUT" is not especially convincing to me.
      - dijit 4y ago
        Excuse me. Can you please point to where I said I would flip out in an office? You're making a really large inference and honestly I don't really appreciate that. In my situation: I suffer some amount of anxiety from being disturbed and because of that I cannot focus, I am always "on edge" waiting for something to happen in any direction of someone trying to get my attention. I don't flip out. I suffer silently, and I only discuss it in one-on-ones or on forums such as this. Which makes people think that this is not a problem- but it is a problem, because I must focus in order to get my work done. So instead of doing it in the office, I go home and do my actual work in my "free" time, and in the office I used to mostly procrastinate or do tasks that were urgent or took less than 15 minutes.
        thaumasiotes 4y ago
        > Excuse me. Can you please point to where I said I would flip out in an office? Here: > My gut reaction to your comment* is outrage honestly. > I cannot focus, I am always "on edge" waiting for something to happen in any direction of someone trying to get my attention. > I suffer silently, and I only discuss it in one-on-ones or on forums such as this. Which makes people think that this is not a problem- but it is a problem, because I must focus in order to get my work done. > So instead of doing it in the office, I go home and do my actual work in my "free" time, and in the office I used to mostly procrastinate > in Coffee Shop settings I can tune out the background It is a little weird that much of your most explicit discussion of flipping out comes from the same comment where you insist that you don't flip out. That you don't vocalize your histrionics doesn't mean you're not having them. Throwing an internal fit and refusing to work is flipping out. Feeling outraged that someone might point out that open offices are objectively not bad is flipping out. By the time you've admitted that you have no problem working in a Starbucks, you've also admitted that whatever your problem with your office is, it's not related to the working conditions.