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No, I'm criticizing their decision to only offer need-based scholarships when they could just as well provide both—if they really cared about academic strength,

No, I'm criticizing their decision to only offer need-based scholarships when they could just as well provide both—if they really cared about academic strength, then they could put their money where their mouth is, and provide meaningful merit-based scholarships. Princeton, for instance, is capable of letting in every student for free, and still not dipping into their endowment [0]. Why don't they do so? Because it would lead to lower tuitions across the board, and that's intolerable. > if you're admitted, then you're going to get whatever amount of scholarship you need to go. No, you get whatever amount of scholarship they think you need to go. Their understanding of your financial situation will be unsurprisingly self-serving. [0] https://malcolmgladwell.bulletin.com/princeton-university-is-the-worlds-first-perpetual-motion-machine/ https://malcolmgladwell.bulletin.com/princeton-university-is...

NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
As usual, Malcolm Gladwell looks insightful but it’s all surface gloss. Do some basic reading about the structure of university endowments: it’s not one big pot of money, it’s thousands upon thousands of individual gifts that often have specific purposes (like: a particular professorial chair, or a particular library) that are limitations on use. I don’t even really understand the point about merit scholarships. Surely the purpose of a merit scholarship is to help someone who can’t afford to go to a school but who is academically outstanding? If you’re doing need-blind admissions and financial aid, that’s the empty set, isn’t it? Since everyone who is admitted can afford to go? As to your last point, please go take a look at that Yale page I attached to the last post and tell me that you think the scholarship amounts look unfair to higher income households.
- sandkoan 4y ago
  I only brought up the Gladwell post to clarify the scale at which these institutions operate. There is no question that they have the money, and, if they chose, could sustainably provide scholarships to some subset of the particularly meritorious. Nothing stops them from soliciting donations for a new merit fund just as they do for their chairs and libraries. I'm not saying everyone deserves a merit scholarship—but if the point of university is to nurture the best and brightest, then the best and brightest shouldn't have to pay such exorbitant fees. Afterall, they're the reason the colleges maintain their sterling academic reputations. If you have a household income of 250k—of which your take home is ~160k—and Columbia subtracts another 90k, that leaves you with 70k to pay for everything else. In expensive locales, that's not nearly enough to pay for the education of two children without mortgaging your house. If said best and brightest are unable to attend due to such circumstances, a merit scholarship seems in order—otherwise, you, as a college, are admitting that money means more to you than education, and that you're willing to take someone who isn't nearly as good (there's a reason you didn't admit them initially) simply because they're capable of paying. Not everyone who is admitted can afford to attend at the price of admission demanded by these colleges. Again, I speak from experience.
- whimsicalism 4y ago
  > the purpose of a merit scholarship is to help someone who can’t afford to go to a school but who is academically outstanding No, that’s not the purpose of a merit scholarship. A merit scholarship is to encourage someone of merit to go to your school in particular by providing them money
  - NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
    That doesn't seem consistent with e.g. the National Merit Scholarship program, where the scholarship funding can be used towards an undergraduate course at any accredited school.
    - whimsicalism 4y ago
      Right, but I'm discussing the purpose of individual schools offering merit programs in the context of already meeting full need.

NovemberWhiskey 4y ago

As usual, Malcolm Gladwell looks insightful but it’s all surface gloss. Do some basic reading about the structure of university endowments: it’s not one big pot of money, it’s thousands upon thousands of individual gifts that often have specific purposes (like: a particular professorial chair, or a particular library) that are limitations on use. I don’t even really understand the point about merit scholarships. Surely the purpose of a merit scholarship is to help someone who can’t afford to go to a school but who is academically outstanding? If you’re doing need-blind admissions and financial aid, that’s the empty set, isn’t it? Since everyone who is admitted can afford to go? As to your last point, please go take a look at that Yale page I attached to the last post and tell me that you think the scholarship amounts look unfair to higher income households.

sandkoan 4y ago
I only brought up the Gladwell post to clarify the scale at which these institutions operate. There is no question that they have the money, and, if they chose, could sustainably provide scholarships to some subset of the particularly meritorious. Nothing stops them from soliciting donations for a new merit fund just as they do for their chairs and libraries. I'm not saying everyone deserves a merit scholarship—but if the point of university is to nurture the best and brightest, then the best and brightest shouldn't have to pay such exorbitant fees. Afterall, they're the reason the colleges maintain their sterling academic reputations. If you have a household income of 250k—of which your take home is ~160k—and Columbia subtracts another 90k, that leaves you with 70k to pay for everything else. In expensive locales, that's not nearly enough to pay for the education of two children without mortgaging your house. If said best and brightest are unable to attend due to such circumstances, a merit scholarship seems in order—otherwise, you, as a college, are admitting that money means more to you than education, and that you're willing to take someone who isn't nearly as good (there's a reason you didn't admit them initially) simply because they're capable of paying. Not everyone who is admitted can afford to attend at the price of admission demanded by these colleges. Again, I speak from experience.
whimsicalism 4y ago
> the purpose of a merit scholarship is to help someone who can’t afford to go to a school but who is academically outstanding No, that’s not the purpose of a merit scholarship. A merit scholarship is to encourage someone of merit to go to your school in particular by providing them money
- NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
  That doesn't seem consistent with e.g. the National Merit Scholarship program, where the scholarship funding can be used towards an undergraduate course at any accredited school.
  - whimsicalism 4y ago
    Right, but I'm discussing the purpose of individual schools offering merit programs in the context of already meeting full need.