3 ms·

Hang in there. I’d say your experience is pretty good. Maybe try AB testing your resume structure and wording, improving social media, etc.

h0l0cube 4y ago
Whenever I've seen a situation with low supply/high demand, networks trump credentials
- drstewart 4y ago
  >situation with low supply/high demand https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/video/unemployment-rate-remains-at-50-year-low/ https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/video/unemployment-rate...
  - pcthrowaway 4y ago
    This is definitely not the tech industry
    - drstewart 4y ago
      Source?
- 71a54xd 4y ago
  Totally agree, fortunately I have a decent network to draw from. Unfortunately, I have to refresh leetcode to take up friends who have rec's to offer + most of those friends work for orgs that have completely frozen hiring pipelines. Network could be better though, going to spend the week at a friend's in Austin at SXSW to accelerate potentially growing the network at cringe founder events. Yes, I'm that desperate.
- name-form 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - sebmellen 4y ago
    For me, when hiring someone, I want to have a track record with them. Having known them over a long period of time helps me be less guarded and more sure of their intentions. This also applies if the person is a friend of a friend — building a “network” just means knowing people who can vouch for you as a valuable and trustworthy person. The ability to build relationships and be stable over time is a merit.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - name-form 4y ago
      So you hire people to pretend to be your friends. How do I leave this planet and your family and “friends” permanently on it? I hate everything you stand for.
      - sebmellen 4y ago
        I’m sorry you feel that way. I have never hired someone to pretend to be my friend, nor do I know someone who has done that. As I see it, having a true network of friends and professional connections is precisely what guards me against “fake” people. If you’d like to reach out (email in profile), I’d be glad to lend some advice.
      - seattle_spring 4y ago
        fyi if you specifically are having a hard time finding a job, I guarantee it’s your attitude (showcased nicely on HN) and not because of nepotism.
  - tcmart14 4y ago
    I think it can depend on what that networking is. Is it, "hey I went to college with a guy and we loosely keep in touch over <insert social media>, but I am hardly familiar with his work, we just are alumni." Okay, that is pretty bad imho. However, if it is something like, "hey there is the person I've done work with on a FOSS porject, both myself and them contribute to <some FOSS project> and the person does good work and is looking for work." I don't find that so bad.
- sebmellen 4y ago
  For me, when hiring someone, I want to have a track record with them. Having known them over a long period of time helps me be less guarded and more sure of their intentions. This also applies if the person is a friend of a friend — building a “network” just means knowing people who can vouch for you as a valuable and trustworthy person. The ability to build relationships and be stable over time is a merit.
  - jstx1 4y ago
    So you're looking to hire people you know and people you don't know don't have a chance to be hired? I don't know how to distinguish this from nepotism.
    - sebmellen 4y ago
      Not at all. But if I have to decide between two people who are equal “on paper”, and I know someone who can vouch for one of them, I will pick the “in-network” person every time.
    - harriet1 4y ago
      [dead]
- moneywoes 4y ago
  Any suggestion for boosting that when you live in a non tech city? Spam LinkedIn cold messages
  - h0l0cube 4y ago
    If I were you, I'd go out and talk to people. Talk to friends in the industry. Go to tech meet ups. Even your neighbors might know someone who knows someone. If you can be adaptable, and self-promote, you might even find opportunities to help non-tech orgs improve their systems. If you're like me, and social skills aren't innate, it might take some exposure therapy, but as long as you maintain a friendly and positive attitude, that will register. It's all about building trust.
- JohnFen 4y ago
  I wouldn't say that networks trump demonstrated ability (I prefer that to "credentials" because that's what credentials are a proxy for), but in any economic environment, your network is as valuable as your demonstrated ability. This is for many very rational reasons.
  - h0l0cube 4y ago
    > I wouldn't say that networks trump demonstrated ability (I prefer that to "credentials" because that's what credentials are a proxy for) That's not what I said. To emphasize my own comment: > Whenever I've seen a situation with low supply/high demand In context to the GGP I was making reference to improving resumes when the labor market is over-saturated. Many orgs will sooner hire someone who's been vouched for than to sift through 100s of Github repos and contact 100s of references. They might not be as good as the best candidate in the pool, but the expense of verifying that might be too much, especially if they don't have the bandwidth to do that (e.g., HR staff, time from tech staff). And in times like these, candidates will be just leaping out of their networks.

h0l0cube 4y ago

Whenever I've seen a situation with low supply/high demand, networks trump credentials

drstewart 4y ago
>situation with low supply/high demand https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/video/unemployment-rate-remains-at-50-year-low/ https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/video/unemployment-rate...
- pcthrowaway 4y ago
  This is definitely not the tech industry
  - drstewart 4y ago
    Source?
71a54xd 4y ago
Totally agree, fortunately I have a decent network to draw from. Unfortunately, I have to refresh leetcode to take up friends who have rec's to offer + most of those friends work for orgs that have completely frozen hiring pipelines. Network could be better though, going to spend the week at a friend's in Austin at SXSW to accelerate potentially growing the network at cringe founder events. Yes, I'm that desperate.
name-form 4y ago
[flagged]
- sebmellen 4y ago
  For me, when hiring someone, I want to have a track record with them. Having known them over a long period of time helps me be less guarded and more sure of their intentions. This also applies if the person is a friend of a friend — building a “network” just means knowing people who can vouch for you as a valuable and trustworthy person. The ability to build relationships and be stable over time is a merit.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - name-form 4y ago
    So you hire people to pretend to be your friends. How do I leave this planet and your family and “friends” permanently on it? I hate everything you stand for.
    - sebmellen 4y ago
      I’m sorry you feel that way. I have never hired someone to pretend to be my friend, nor do I know someone who has done that. As I see it, having a true network of friends and professional connections is precisely what guards me against “fake” people. If you’d like to reach out (email in profile), I’d be glad to lend some advice.
    - seattle_spring 4y ago
      fyi if you specifically are having a hard time finding a job, I guarantee it’s your attitude (showcased nicely on HN) and not because of nepotism.
- tcmart14 4y ago
  I think it can depend on what that networking is. Is it, "hey I went to college with a guy and we loosely keep in touch over <insert social media>, but I am hardly familiar with his work, we just are alumni." Okay, that is pretty bad imho. However, if it is something like, "hey there is the person I've done work with on a FOSS porject, both myself and them contribute to <some FOSS project> and the person does good work and is looking for work." I don't find that so bad.
sebmellen 4y ago
For me, when hiring someone, I want to have a track record with them. Having known them over a long period of time helps me be less guarded and more sure of their intentions. This also applies if the person is a friend of a friend — building a “network” just means knowing people who can vouch for you as a valuable and trustworthy person. The ability to build relationships and be stable over time is a merit.
- jstx1 4y ago
  So you're looking to hire people you know and people you don't know don't have a chance to be hired? I don't know how to distinguish this from nepotism.
  - sebmellen 4y ago
    Not at all. But if I have to decide between two people who are equal “on paper”, and I know someone who can vouch for one of them, I will pick the “in-network” person every time.
  - harriet1 4y ago
    [dead]
moneywoes 4y ago
Any suggestion for boosting that when you live in a non tech city? Spam LinkedIn cold messages
- h0l0cube 4y ago
  If I were you, I'd go out and talk to people. Talk to friends in the industry. Go to tech meet ups. Even your neighbors might know someone who knows someone. If you can be adaptable, and self-promote, you might even find opportunities to help non-tech orgs improve their systems. If you're like me, and social skills aren't innate, it might take some exposure therapy, but as long as you maintain a friendly and positive attitude, that will register. It's all about building trust.
JohnFen 4y ago
I wouldn't say that networks trump demonstrated ability (I prefer that to "credentials" because that's what credentials are a proxy for), but in any economic environment, your network is as valuable as your demonstrated ability. This is for many very rational reasons.
- h0l0cube 4y ago
  > I wouldn't say that networks trump demonstrated ability (I prefer that to "credentials" because that's what credentials are a proxy for) That's not what I said. To emphasize my own comment: > Whenever I've seen a situation with low supply/high demand In context to the GGP I was making reference to improving resumes when the labor market is over-saturated. Many orgs will sooner hire someone who's been vouched for than to sift through 100s of Github repos and contact 100s of references. They might not be as good as the best candidate in the pool, but the expense of verifying that might be too much, especially if they don't have the bandwidth to do that (e.g., HR staff, time from tech staff). And in times like these, candidates will be just leaping out of their networks.