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But why not turn the Flag Shield on for that post? That's been done in the past for other contentious topics. If ever there was a time to get a return on invest

by zamnos 4y ago

But why not turn the Flag Shield on for that post? That's been done in the past for other contentious topics. If ever there was a time to get a return on investment for running this forum, right now would be it! Otherwise what is the point of paying the server bills and dang and co's salary? What is the ROI for running HN if not for this sort of emergency?

dang 4y ago
We're extra careful about how we moderate HN when YC (or YC-funded startups) are part of the story. If we had turned user flags off on the post, some people would have felt like we were using moderation power to promote a YC story, even though HN users had expressed (through flags) that they didn't want it on the site. In such a conflict, we need to follow the community's verdict, even if it goes against YC. We do that because we understand that the good will of the HN community is more valuable in the long run. Does that make sense?
- zamnos 4y ago
  Thank you for the response so late on a Saturday night. What you said makes sense and is entirely reasonable, but there are times to be unreasonable. SVB just failed! The community's verdict didn't need to be followed when Elon was taking over Twitter; that story that stayed up far longer than it would have naturally. Is that more important than making payroll for hundreds of small businesses? Actions speak louder than words. Let the story live, just be transparent and pin a comment at the top saying it is staying up because it materially affects the company that runs this site. The community is able to understand. Frame it as intentionally paying for an otherwise free service because you want it to continue to exist. Make the front page 1 story longer while it's up if it's about the sanctity of the front page. This community is reminded it's an arm of YC because of how jarring it is every time there's a job posting on the front page and we can't comment on it. You've done such a great job stewarding this community, time to cash in on the good will you've banked, for our benefactors. Whatever you decide I'll respect your decision, but I felt another perspective might help.
  - dang 4y ago
    The SVB failure has been massively covered on HN. It's not as if this story has been neglected in the slightest! The post we're talking about, which users flagged, was a YC blog post asking people to sign a petition. Petitions aren't particularly on topic for HN to begin with. We occasionally override the community verdict if we feel like a story is particularly interesting and the override is a 'teachable moment' about the kind of culture we want on HN. That wasn't the case here, and if we had tried to override the community to favor a YC company post on a hot and controversial topic that many people were angry about, we would have been skinned alive. Two moderation skills that help a lot are (1) not overusing power, and (2) not stepping in front of fast-moving trains. One learns these things the hard way and I don't want to revisit the lesson!

by zamnos 4y ago

dang 4y ago

We're extra careful about how we moderate HN when YC (or YC-funded startups) are part of the story. If we had turned user flags off on the post, some people would have felt like we were using moderation power to promote a YC story, even though HN users had expressed (through flags) that they didn't want it on the site. In such a conflict, we need to follow the community's verdict, even if it goes against YC. We do that because we understand that the good will of the HN community is more valuable in the long run. Does that make sense?

zamnos 4y ago
Thank you for the response so late on a Saturday night. What you said makes sense and is entirely reasonable, but there are times to be unreasonable. SVB just failed! The community's verdict didn't need to be followed when Elon was taking over Twitter; that story that stayed up far longer than it would have naturally. Is that more important than making payroll for hundreds of small businesses? Actions speak louder than words. Let the story live, just be transparent and pin a comment at the top saying it is staying up because it materially affects the company that runs this site. The community is able to understand. Frame it as intentionally paying for an otherwise free service because you want it to continue to exist. Make the front page 1 story longer while it's up if it's about the sanctity of the front page. This community is reminded it's an arm of YC because of how jarring it is every time there's a job posting on the front page and we can't comment on it. You've done such a great job stewarding this community, time to cash in on the good will you've banked, for our benefactors. Whatever you decide I'll respect your decision, but I felt another perspective might help.
- dang 4y ago
  The SVB failure has been massively covered on HN. It's not as if this story has been neglected in the slightest! The post we're talking about, which users flagged, was a YC blog post asking people to sign a petition. Petitions aren't particularly on topic for HN to begin with. We occasionally override the community verdict if we feel like a story is particularly interesting and the override is a 'teachable moment' about the kind of culture we want on HN. That wasn't the case here, and if we had tried to override the community to favor a YC company post on a hot and controversial topic that many people were angry about, we would have been skinned alive. Two moderation skills that help a lot are (1) not overusing power, and (2) not stepping in front of fast-moving trains. One learns these things the hard way and I don't want to revisit the lesson!