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Most people leave school able to perform basic arithmetic and to read and write. Almost nobody has a basic understanding of economics. Go here and learn more a

Most people leave school able to perform basic arithmetic and to read and write. Almost nobody has a basic understanding of economics. Go here and learn more about economics in 30 minutes than 99% of people. https://mises.org/economics-beginners https://mises.org/economics-beginners

cratermoon 4y ago
That would be exactly the kind of Chicago School Free Market Fundamentalism the story is calling out. I suggest skipping this link and instead get your hands on a copy of Robert Heilbroner's book The Worldly Philosophers.
b1c1jones 4y ago
I don't trust any organization that in "Government as the Ultimate Cause of the Tragedy of the Commons" states that private ownership is the cure. Who owns the oceans, and who owns the air?
- aww_dang 4y ago
  That is an unfortunate dismissal. Perhaps it would be better to examine the arguments provided rather than preemptively dismissing them. Fwiw, Mises.org is shadowbanned from new submissions on this site, but the authoritarian view from legacy media sources is celebrated. You can even post articles from socialist/marxist outlets like Jacobin.
  - b1c1jones 4y ago
    What makes anyone think I didn't examine the arguments? What is your view on the Tragedy of the Commons with regards to air, and ocean? Are you advocating they be privately owned?
    - aww_dang 4y ago
      If you did examine the arguments, you didn't engage with them. Instead you dismissed the conclusion with a flippant hand-wave. Doctor: Here's why you should take medicine. It is grape flavor jones: Underlying conditions be damned. I don't like grape flavor. Not taking it. Doctor 2: Yeah sure, just eat chocolate. jones: Here's my pharmacy's number If your use of the atmosphere on your property harms my health or otherwise detracts from the value of my person or property, then you should be liable. Liability shouldn't be limited by citing, "But I was within the EPA guidelines! Don't like it, take it up with the state! We all voted and you've had your say. Breathe in the toxic fumes democratically. You had your chance to elect politicians who in turn could appoint bureaucrats; Bureaucrats which can freely interpret and selectively enforce legislation as per their capricious whims. Yes, you've had your chance in the land of freedom." Is there a bigger tragedy of the 'commons' than democracy? Everything falls under the public prerogative. Who you should marry and what you should eat or drink is now part of the 'commons'. What is private today can just as easily become part of the "collective good".
      - b1c1jones 4y ago
        Thank you for the attempt.
BoiledCabbage 4y ago
Please don't post extremist views claiming that they are basic economics. Straight from wikipedia. This isn't basic economics. It's essentially the the absurd "capitalism at all costs" group think that's being called out here in this article. It's why Alabama just rolled back child-labor laws today. > In the early 90s, Austrian economist Steven Horwitz called the Mises Institute "a fascist fist in a libertarian glove." > In 2000, a report by the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) categorized the Mises Institute as Neo-Confederate, "devoted to a radical libertarian view of government and economics."[28] > In 2003, an article by Chip Berlet of the SPLC noted Rothbard's disgust with child labor laws, and wrote that other Institute scholars held anti-immigrant views. > In 2022, fundraising emails sent by the Mises Institute reportedly told followers that "elections aren't working anymore", arguing that the system is irreformable, captured by "parasites such as the Deep State, the political class, and the Federal Reserve", and claiming that "the Founding Fathers would demand revolution." 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mises_Institute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mises_Institute
- js8 4y ago
  But even if we look away from that, main problem with Austrian school of economics (which is Mises) is that it is extremely rationalist (in this sense https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/rationalism-empiricism/ https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/rationalism-empiricism/) to the point it doesn't even accept any empirical evidence. And it is clear from their books, they simply do not reflect any real world data, it's all made up with no connection to the objective reality whatsoever. Second problem is more widespread and it is that in practice, economics is always political (in the sense it includes some moral axioms whether you like it or not), and various right-wing attempts (austrian, objectivist, neoclassical) to repaint it as something objective are highly contested if you look at history of the profession. I think Ha-Joon Chang (whose https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/23_Things_They_Don%27t_Tell_You_About_Capitalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/23_Things_They_Don%27t_Tell_Yo... is also a great read) points this out very nicely in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdbbcO35arw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdbbcO35arw.
js8 4y ago
Oh my. And your comment started so well. If you really want short intro, I would recommend Jim Stanford's Economics for Everyone. It actually starts with a recommendation to go out and ask local people and businesses, how are they doing. Michael Goodwin's Economix is also pretty good. It mentions all the different heterodox approaches.
- b1c1jones 4y ago
  Isn't that going from max right on the pendulum to somewhere close to max left?
  - js8 4y ago
    Not really sure what your question is, while it is true that Stanford is a labor activist, his book is not really that much left. Economix is also not particularly advocating for the left. Neither of the books seem to advocate any particular ideology.
cowmoo728 4y ago
> In the early 90s, Austrian economist Steven Horwitz called the Mises Institute "a fascist fist in a libertarian glove." > In 2003, an article by Chip Berlet of the SPLC noted Rothbard's disgust with child labor laws, and wrote that other Institute scholars held anti-immigrant views. > In 2022, fundraising emails sent by the Mises Institute reportedly told followers that "elections aren't working anymore", arguing that the system is irreformable, captured by "parasites such as the Deep State, the political class, and the Federal Reserve", and claiming that "the Founding Fathers would demand revolution." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mises_Institute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mises_Institute The Mises Institute is a political advocacy organization with pretty radical views. It endorses "heterodox economics" kind of how the flat earth society could be described as endorsing "heterodox science".

cratermoon 4y ago

That would be exactly the kind of Chicago School Free Market Fundamentalism the story is calling out. I suggest skipping this link and instead get your hands on a copy of Robert Heilbroner's book The Worldly Philosophers.

b1c1jones 4y ago

I don't trust any organization that in "Government as the Ultimate Cause of the Tragedy of the Commons" states that private ownership is the cure. Who owns the oceans, and who owns the air?

aww_dang 4y ago
That is an unfortunate dismissal. Perhaps it would be better to examine the arguments provided rather than preemptively dismissing them. Fwiw, Mises.org is shadowbanned from new submissions on this site, but the authoritarian view from legacy media sources is celebrated. You can even post articles from socialist/marxist outlets like Jacobin.
- b1c1jones 4y ago
  What makes anyone think I didn't examine the arguments? What is your view on the Tragedy of the Commons with regards to air, and ocean? Are you advocating they be privately owned?
  - aww_dang 4y ago
    If you did examine the arguments, you didn't engage with them. Instead you dismissed the conclusion with a flippant hand-wave. Doctor: Here's why you should take medicine. It is grape flavor jones: Underlying conditions be damned. I don't like grape flavor. Not taking it. Doctor 2: Yeah sure, just eat chocolate. jones: Here's my pharmacy's number If your use of the atmosphere on your property harms my health or otherwise detracts from the value of my person or property, then you should be liable. Liability shouldn't be limited by citing, "But I was within the EPA guidelines! Don't like it, take it up with the state! We all voted and you've had your say. Breathe in the toxic fumes democratically. You had your chance to elect politicians who in turn could appoint bureaucrats; Bureaucrats which can freely interpret and selectively enforce legislation as per their capricious whims. Yes, you've had your chance in the land of freedom." Is there a bigger tragedy of the 'commons' than democracy? Everything falls under the public prerogative. Who you should marry and what you should eat or drink is now part of the 'commons'. What is private today can just as easily become part of the "collective good".
    - b1c1jones 4y ago
      Thank you for the attempt.

BoiledCabbage 4y ago

Please don't post extremist views claiming that they are basic economics. Straight from wikipedia. This isn't basic economics. It's essentially the the absurd "capitalism at all costs" group think that's being called out here in this article. It's why Alabama just rolled back child-labor laws today. > In the early 90s, Austrian economist Steven Horwitz called the Mises Institute "a fascist fist in a libertarian glove." > In 2000, a report by the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) categorized the Mises Institute as Neo-Confederate, "devoted to a radical libertarian view of government and economics."[28] > In 2003, an article by Chip Berlet of the SPLC noted Rothbard's disgust with child labor laws, and wrote that other Institute scholars held anti-immigrant views. > In 2022, fundraising emails sent by the Mises Institute reportedly told followers that "elections aren't working anymore", arguing that the system is irreformable, captured by "parasites such as the Deep State, the political class, and the Federal Reserve", and claiming that "the Founding Fathers would demand revolution." 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mises_Institute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mises_Institute

js8 4y ago
But even if we look away from that, main problem with Austrian school of economics (which is Mises) is that it is extremely rationalist (in this sense https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/rationalism-empiricism/ https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/rationalism-empiricism/) to the point it doesn't even accept any empirical evidence. And it is clear from their books, they simply do not reflect any real world data, it's all made up with no connection to the objective reality whatsoever. Second problem is more widespread and it is that in practice, economics is always political (in the sense it includes some moral axioms whether you like it or not), and various right-wing attempts (austrian, objectivist, neoclassical) to repaint it as something objective are highly contested if you look at history of the profession. I think Ha-Joon Chang (whose https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/23_Things_They_Don%27t_Tell_You_About_Capitalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/23_Things_They_Don%27t_Tell_Yo... is also a great read) points this out very nicely in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdbbcO35arw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdbbcO35arw.

js8 4y ago

Oh my. And your comment started so well. If you really want short intro, I would recommend Jim Stanford's Economics for Everyone. It actually starts with a recommendation to go out and ask local people and businesses, how are they doing. Michael Goodwin's Economix is also pretty good. It mentions all the different heterodox approaches.

b1c1jones 4y ago
Isn't that going from max right on the pendulum to somewhere close to max left?
- js8 4y ago
  Not really sure what your question is, while it is true that Stanford is a labor activist, his book is not really that much left. Economix is also not particularly advocating for the left. Neither of the books seem to advocate any particular ideology.

cowmoo728 4y ago

> In the early 90s, Austrian economist Steven Horwitz called the Mises Institute "a fascist fist in a libertarian glove." > In 2003, an article by Chip Berlet of the SPLC noted Rothbard's disgust with child labor laws, and wrote that other Institute scholars held anti-immigrant views. > In 2022, fundraising emails sent by the Mises Institute reportedly told followers that "elections aren't working anymore", arguing that the system is irreformable, captured by "parasites such as the Deep State, the political class, and the Federal Reserve", and claiming that "the Founding Fathers would demand revolution." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mises_Institute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mises_Institute The Mises Institute is a political advocacy organization with pretty radical views. It endorses "heterodox economics" kind of how the flat earth society could be described as endorsing "heterodox science".