3 ms·

> There is no regulation for the % of each isomer in the product. This means that one brand may be 70% L, 30% D, and a different brand could be the opposite. T

> There is no regulation for the % of each isomer in the product. This means that one brand may be 70% L, 30% D, and a different brand could be the opposite. This is true for the unregulated illicit drug market, but it's most certainly not true for regulated drugs like Adderall. The ratios of the different isomers in Adderall are well-defined and are part of the drug definition. There are also stimulant variants that are 100% d-amphetamine, which would obviously be in violation of their drug definition if manufacturers starting shipping racemic versions. > Havent seen any mention of this yet but the reason for this is well known in the recreational drug community : amphetamine is a chiral molecule. The D isomer is more psychologically active. The L isomer creates more physical side effects. This is over-simplifying the matter. The L-isomer has different effects and duration, but it's incorrect to suggest that it's all "side effects". Some patients do better on racemic mixtures with L-amphetamine. Some patients do better on pure D-amphetamine. It's not correct to suggest that one is pure side effects.

scythe 4y ago
>This is true for the unregulated illicit drug market, but it's most certainly not true for regulated drugs like Adderall. It's not even consistently true for the illicit drug market. You can just Google "amphetamine isomer separation tartrate" to get a bunch of information about it. The l-isomer of amphetamine is very weak, and sellers want return business.
DontchaKnowit 4y ago
You are correct. After looking it up it seems I was misinformed about the enantiomers in generics thing. As far as the effevts of l amph- eh. Yes. There is some amount of evidence the the L isomer produces symptom relief similar to d amph. Frankly ive never had the two seperated so I wouldnt know from experience, but I have read repeatedly over the years that L amph is associated with more norepinephrine effects than D, and norepinephrine agonists produce ohysical side effects such as vasoconstriction.
fdathrow2321 4y ago
Yeah, naw. You can state the hypothetical way things are supposed to work in the best case -- and you can state so confidentially -- but that doesn't mean that reflects the real world at all. Look through the FDA warning letters database for manufacturers of adderall (f.e. the "Auro" family of producers). You'll notice a lot of warnings have already been issued for quality control and adulteration issues (and continue to be issued yearly, ad infinitum). Yeah, the 3rd world factory where these drugs are manufactured, for sure tested their product themselves and found it to be bio-equivalent and within the acceptable FDA variance of "how much of the active drug is actually in each pill, vs. what's stated on the specs." And yeah, the FDA for sure trusts these factories which are thousands of miles away are always up-to-snuff -- even when they don't have an inspector around. Your statements about the illicit market aren't true either (pro-tip: the legal and illegal market for the usual, non-exotic synthetic drugs comes from the same source; with minor exceptions in local markets). And a final pro-tip: if you think the only reason brand drugs are expensive is branding/marketing/some other bullshit -- some of the cost is in proper quality control (they're incentivized to maintain high standards, so people keep coming back to ask for the brand-name -- instead of some nameless generic any fly-by-night shop can manufacture).
- awinter-py 4y ago
  what warning letter search terms do you suggest to understand the whole scope of FDA amphetamine quality inspection? are there other DBs I should look in?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- robbintt 4y ago
  I have no doubt this is true after reading about the 8 years of shit quality heart medicine, metropolol, coming out of india, which so many older americans rely on and can cause heart damage if inconsistently taken. It's an outrage.

scythe 4y ago

>This is true for the unregulated illicit drug market, but it's most certainly not true for regulated drugs like Adderall. It's not even consistently true for the illicit drug market. You can just Google "amphetamine isomer separation tartrate" to get a bunch of information about it. The l-isomer of amphetamine is very weak, and sellers want return business.

DontchaKnowit 4y ago

You are correct. After looking it up it seems I was misinformed about the enantiomers in generics thing. As far as the effevts of l amph- eh. Yes. There is some amount of evidence the the L isomer produces symptom relief similar to d amph. Frankly ive never had the two seperated so I wouldnt know from experience, but I have read repeatedly over the years that L amph is associated with more norepinephrine effects than D, and norepinephrine agonists produce ohysical side effects such as vasoconstriction.

fdathrow2321 4y ago

Yeah, naw. You can state the hypothetical way things are supposed to work in the best case -- and you can state so confidentially -- but that doesn't mean that reflects the real world at all. Look through the FDA warning letters database for manufacturers of adderall (f.e. the "Auro" family of producers). You'll notice a lot of warnings have already been issued for quality control and adulteration issues (and continue to be issued yearly, ad infinitum). Yeah, the 3rd world factory where these drugs are manufactured, for sure tested their product themselves and found it to be bio-equivalent and within the acceptable FDA variance of "how much of the active drug is actually in each pill, vs. what's stated on the specs." And yeah, the FDA for sure trusts these factories which are thousands of miles away are always up-to-snuff -- even when they don't have an inspector around. Your statements about the illicit market aren't true either (pro-tip: the legal and illegal market for the usual, non-exotic synthetic drugs comes from the same source; with minor exceptions in local markets). And a final pro-tip: if you think the only reason brand drugs are expensive is branding/marketing/some other bullshit -- some of the cost is in proper quality control (they're incentivized to maintain high standards, so people keep coming back to ask for the brand-name -- instead of some nameless generic any fly-by-night shop can manufacture).

awinter-py 4y ago
what warning letter search terms do you suggest to understand the whole scope of FDA amphetamine quality inspection? are there other DBs I should look in?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
robbintt 4y ago
I have no doubt this is true after reading about the 8 years of shit quality heart medicine, metropolol, coming out of india, which so many older americans rely on and can cause heart damage if inconsistently taken. It's an outrage.