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I think it’s important to be pragmatic about the actual value of your work. Quite often it’s zero. So if you get enjoyment, for any reason, out of supplying da

I think it’s important to be pragmatic about the actual value of your work. Quite often it’s zero. So if you get enjoyment, for any reason, out of supplying data to a massive company for free, then that’s a win.

waynesonfire 4y ago
It's a hobby. Once a hobby becomes a paid service, it seizes to be a hobby. I don't know how to articulate this concept or why it is. But, I avoid it.
- Waterluvian 4y ago
  I agree. I put conscious effort into making sure my hobbies never make me money. I know that if they turned into a business they’d stop being fun and at my own pace.
- pasquinelli 4y ago
  doing what you love for work turns what you love into work.
  - TheOtherHobbes 4y ago
    Which can be fine, depending what "work" means. One of the most toxic beliefs around the arts is that they're essentially just a hobby for everyone, including successful professionals. There's a lot of "I could do that", slightly less "I could do that if I practiced enough" and occasionally some "You're so lucky to be doing that." Insiders know it's basically a job. There's a surprising amount of admin, marketing, and networking involved, a lot of stress around deadlines, sometimes stress and drama around coworkers/reviewers/critics/consumers/managing execs, and so on. That's in addition to craft and technique, which even the most gifted creatives have to spend plenty of time on. No one wafts out of their bedroom and casually sketches a hit single, a symphony, or a best selling novel. So if people want to write reviews for free - that's creative in the hobby sense. But not so much in the professional sense. The upside about creative professionals is that unlike hobbyists - and like other professionals - they will get the job done. Whatever the job is. It may not always be the biggest success, but something will be produced, and it's very likely to be of higher quality than the output of a casual.
    - Waterluvian 4y ago
      I once found myself in an elevator at Magfest with a minor celebrity. I had been at their panel the previous day and had picked up on subtle cues that they were rather uncomfortable and out of place as they worked to satisfy their fans. I said something approximate to, “I enjoyed your panel. It must be very difficult to meet your fans at their level of energy.” Which was apparently a secret password because the individual just opened right up and poured. My takeaway from the elevator confessional was summed up in their final line, approximately: “my day job is their passion. How do I admit that I’ve never even played the game?” This is kind of tangential to the point you’re making, but I was reminded of this because I think fans regularly mistake the end product as a representation of the artist, because often it is. But often it’s just a job. A very demanding job.
      - diyseguy 4y ago
        from audience capture to captured by the audience!
- convolvatron 4y ago
  sadly, if you want to work with/for other people...its difficult to get them to engage with you for free. I get a lot more interesting work by charging a low hourly and hiding a lot of my hours. edit: oh yeah, a failure mode - some small business owners are like - hey, cheap labor, why don't you clean my walkin? usually that means the end of the relationship
- b112 4y ago
  seizes to be a hobby Voice to text typo? You mean "ceases" here? (Posting in case author is not english native, and needs to know...)
andyonthewings 4y ago
The definition of value may includes many things beside money. A nicely written review on Google Maps brings fulfillment to the writer, the subject (e.g. business) may find the review useful for improvement, other users may also make use of the review for their better plannings. If you're against Google, or any other mega corps, consider contributing to Openstreetmap, WikiMedia Commons etc. I have a habit of uploading photos (restaurants, foods, shops, tourist attractions) to WikiMedia Commons, organise them in categories and then add them to Openstreetmap nodes as tags.

waynesonfire 4y ago

It's a hobby. Once a hobby becomes a paid service, it seizes to be a hobby. I don't know how to articulate this concept or why it is. But, I avoid it.

Waterluvian 4y ago
I agree. I put conscious effort into making sure my hobbies never make me money. I know that if they turned into a business they’d stop being fun and at my own pace.
pasquinelli 4y ago
doing what you love for work turns what you love into work.
- TheOtherHobbes 4y ago
  Which can be fine, depending what "work" means. One of the most toxic beliefs around the arts is that they're essentially just a hobby for everyone, including successful professionals. There's a lot of "I could do that", slightly less "I could do that if I practiced enough" and occasionally some "You're so lucky to be doing that." Insiders know it's basically a job. There's a surprising amount of admin, marketing, and networking involved, a lot of stress around deadlines, sometimes stress and drama around coworkers/reviewers/critics/consumers/managing execs, and so on. That's in addition to craft and technique, which even the most gifted creatives have to spend plenty of time on. No one wafts out of their bedroom and casually sketches a hit single, a symphony, or a best selling novel. So if people want to write reviews for free - that's creative in the hobby sense. But not so much in the professional sense. The upside about creative professionals is that unlike hobbyists - and like other professionals - they will get the job done. Whatever the job is. It may not always be the biggest success, but something will be produced, and it's very likely to be of higher quality than the output of a casual.
  - Waterluvian 4y ago
    I once found myself in an elevator at Magfest with a minor celebrity. I had been at their panel the previous day and had picked up on subtle cues that they were rather uncomfortable and out of place as they worked to satisfy their fans. I said something approximate to, “I enjoyed your panel. It must be very difficult to meet your fans at their level of energy.” Which was apparently a secret password because the individual just opened right up and poured. My takeaway from the elevator confessional was summed up in their final line, approximately: “my day job is their passion. How do I admit that I’ve never even played the game?” This is kind of tangential to the point you’re making, but I was reminded of this because I think fans regularly mistake the end product as a representation of the artist, because often it is. But often it’s just a job. A very demanding job.
    - diyseguy 4y ago
      from audience capture to captured by the audience!
convolvatron 4y ago
sadly, if you want to work with/for other people...its difficult to get them to engage with you for free. I get a lot more interesting work by charging a low hourly and hiding a lot of my hours. edit: oh yeah, a failure mode - some small business owners are like - hey, cheap labor, why don't you clean my walkin? usually that means the end of the relationship
b112 4y ago
seizes to be a hobby Voice to text typo? You mean "ceases" here? (Posting in case author is not english native, and needs to know...)

andyonthewings 4y ago

The definition of value may includes many things beside money. A nicely written review on Google Maps brings fulfillment to the writer, the subject (e.g. business) may find the review useful for improvement, other users may also make use of the review for their better plannings. If you're against Google, or any other mega corps, consider contributing to Openstreetmap, WikiMedia Commons etc. I have a habit of uploading photos (restaurants, foods, shops, tourist attractions) to WikiMedia Commons, organise them in categories and then add them to Openstreetmap nodes as tags.