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> How is this different from a HomeOwner's Association (HOA) enforcing community standards? This is a horrible comparison. Ivy league schools are competiting

by stale2002 4y ago

> How is this different from a HomeOwner's Association (HOA) enforcing community standards? This is a horrible comparison. Ivy league schools are competiting businesses in a market. Much different than a group of homes, which really aren't directly competing in a market. (even though, I am sure you can twist an argument that they are. They really aren't. Most people are not trying to sell their homes, and there are a lot of homes all around the world. 'market collusion' between a couple homes not a big deal compared to huge businesses doing it). > from an HOA enforcing things like "no boat parking"? Because 1 ivy league school should have no business forcing a different school on the other side of the country on how they run their business, thats why. Thats market collusion.

tedunangst 4y ago
> Because 1 ivy league school should have no business forcing a different school on the other side of the country on how they run their business Fortunately, all the Ivy League schools are on the same side, in same corner even, of the country.
- stale2002 4y ago
  So no they should have no business forcing other ivy leagues to do things then. Because houses in the same HOA are literally right next to each other. Like a block away, whereas the same is not true for schools.
  - oarabbus_ 4y ago
    >Because houses in the same HOA are literally right next to each other. Like a block away, whereas the same is not true for schools. There are HOAs with tens of thousands of homes, spanning dozens of miles, this is not true.
    - stale2002 4y ago
      > There are HOAs with tens of thousands of homes, spanning dozens of miles Still has a significantly smaller effect on the market than a bunch of education institutions coming together to collude. The education systems aren't even next to each other either. They don't have any business controlling other schools. At least there is some nominal justification for a house to control their neighbors house, given that it is a living community. I do not think that education systems as an entire system have the same justification to control one another. Instead, they should compete in the market.
      - oarabbus_ 4y ago
        >Still has a significantly smaller effect on the market than a bunch of education institutions coming together to collude. Citation needed. Again, the vast majority of Division 1 schools offer athletic scholarship. Where is this large collusion effect?
        stale2002 4y ago
        > Citation needed. I am not sure if you were aware, but there are a lot of houses in the world. In comparison, there aren't nearly as many high end, elite educational institutions. I think that you are more than capable of finding a citation yourself that proves that there are quite a lot more houses in the world, than there are top educational institutions.
        oarabbus_ 4y ago
        >I am not sure if you were aware, but there are a lot of houses in the world. >In comparison, there aren't nearly as many high end, elite educational institutions. The college enrollment rate is under 70%, and I am not sure if you were aware, but the percentage of people in homes is much greater than this. I mean, you just proved the point I was making. High-end, elite, Division 1 schools overwhelmingly offer athletic scholarships, vs not offering them. Stanford, Duke, Northwestern, and UC Berkeley have greater student enrollment than all the ivy leagues combined. People always try to do mental gymnastics with some "any non-Ivy League is by definition not an elite school" but using any objective ranking measure, just add Georgetown, UCLA, Notre Dame, UNC, Michigan, and suddenly the enrollment of athletic-scholarship-offering schools are >10x that of the ones that don't offer them. You're making rather wild unsubstantiated claims at this point ("# houses > # schools == ivy leagues have greater impact") after repeatedly failing to demonstrate how HOA is not a good analogy to this situation. Comically these claims are completely false - over 25% of the USA lives in HOA communities, but nowhere near that many D1 schools (and even less by enrollment) does not offer athletic scholarships. Congrats, you inadvertently proved that Ivies not giving academic scholarships has a negligible effect, especially compared to housing.

tedunangst 4y ago

> Because 1 ivy league school should have no business forcing a different school on the other side of the country on how they run their business Fortunately, all the Ivy League schools are on the same side, in same corner even, of the country.

stale2002 4y ago
So no they should have no business forcing other ivy leagues to do things then. Because houses in the same HOA are literally right next to each other. Like a block away, whereas the same is not true for schools.
- oarabbus_ 4y ago
  >Because houses in the same HOA are literally right next to each other. Like a block away, whereas the same is not true for schools. There are HOAs with tens of thousands of homes, spanning dozens of miles, this is not true.
  - stale2002 4y ago
    > There are HOAs with tens of thousands of homes, spanning dozens of miles Still has a significantly smaller effect on the market than a bunch of education institutions coming together to collude. The education systems aren't even next to each other either. They don't have any business controlling other schools. At least there is some nominal justification for a house to control their neighbors house, given that it is a living community. I do not think that education systems as an entire system have the same justification to control one another. Instead, they should compete in the market.
    - oarabbus_ 4y ago
      >Still has a significantly smaller effect on the market than a bunch of education institutions coming together to collude. Citation needed. Again, the vast majority of Division 1 schools offer athletic scholarship. Where is this large collusion effect?
      - stale2002 4y ago
        > Citation needed. I am not sure if you were aware, but there are a lot of houses in the world. In comparison, there aren't nearly as many high end, elite educational institutions. I think that you are more than capable of finding a citation yourself that proves that there are quite a lot more houses in the world, than there are top educational institutions.
        oarabbus_ 4y ago
        >I am not sure if you were aware, but there are a lot of houses in the world. >In comparison, there aren't nearly as many high end, elite educational institutions. The college enrollment rate is under 70%, and I am not sure if you were aware, but the percentage of people in homes is much greater than this. I mean, you just proved the point I was making. High-end, elite, Division 1 schools overwhelmingly offer athletic scholarships, vs not offering them. Stanford, Duke, Northwestern, and UC Berkeley have greater student enrollment than all the ivy leagues combined. People always try to do mental gymnastics with some "any non-Ivy League is by definition not an elite school" but using any objective ranking measure, just add Georgetown, UCLA, Notre Dame, UNC, Michigan, and suddenly the enrollment of athletic-scholarship-offering schools are >10x that of the ones that don't offer them. You're making rather wild unsubstantiated claims at this point ("# houses > # schools == ivy leagues have greater impact") after repeatedly failing to demonstrate how HOA is not a good analogy to this situation. Comically these claims are completely false - over 25% of the USA lives in HOA communities, but nowhere near that many D1 schools (and even less by enrollment) does not offer athletic scholarships. Congrats, you inadvertently proved that Ivies not giving academic scholarships has a negligible effect, especially compared to housing.