8 ms·

- Simple design with dense information and verbose navigation - Loads immediately, no frustrating and slow skeleton loading gray boxes - No popups asking you

- Simple design with dense information and verbose navigation - Loads immediately, no frustrating and slow skeleton loading gray boxes - No popups asking you to subscribe, register, or download a mobile app Why do we tolerate the modern web treating us so poorly when the example of how to do it better has been around since the 90s?

jpmattia 4y ago
> No popups asking you to subscribe, register, or download a mobile app https://exrx.net/Drugs/Caffeine https://exrx.net/Drugs/Caffeine
- travisporter 4y ago
  Still not a pop up
- mostlysimilar 4y ago
  Premium features and gated content are not inherently bad. We all want to make money. Gaudy and intrusive pop-ups, banners, and things that try to pull me to that content is bad. The difference between being pulled into it and seeking content myself is an important one. Services that annoy people into doing what they want may get short term results but are generating a lot of ill-will for the medium and long term. This website even has reasonable advertisements in the side-bar. No floating videos that auto-play, no ads injected right in the middle of the content I'm reading. Just a plain old ad on the right side of the content.
  - rchaud 4y ago
    When I was using this site a lot back in 2009, it really was ad-free. Even more minimal than what it is now. Each exercise page had a super-small dithered GIF image of a person doing the exercise. Those seem to be gone now.
altairprime 4y ago
It’s time-expensive and not easily automated to write “rewrite” logic for sites. Think an order of magnitude more difficult than Reader Mode, because you need to incorporate the nav links and forms.
criddell 4y ago
> - No popups asking you to subscribe, register, or download a mobile app I’ve been wondering why ad blockers aren’t better about blocking these. I’m not sure when the last time was when I got a popup on a website that was something I wanted to see.
- strulovich 4y ago
  I know very little of the subject. But maybe since ads generally arrive from other domains, making them easy to differentiate from the site’s content, while these popup are part of the website and are much harder to distinguish reliably, making it harder to build such a tool (which I assume does exist).
- stanac 4y ago
  uBlock origin has annoyances filters for exactly that. They aren't turn on by default.
  - OrwellianChild 4y ago
    I did not know this - thank you!
- rchaud 4y ago
  Adblockers usually apply a combination of a network filter and a CSS filter to block the offending 3rd party script, and make the HTML element containing the ads invisible. While network filters are still working well, it's getting harder to block on-site elements like popups because web frameworks often generate nonsensical class names to apply on divs, to prevent Developer A's class names and styles from conflicting with Developer B's. So if previously you could successfully hide the HTML email popup container by looking for the class/id "ad-container", you won't be able to do that if the class/id changes to "xxgsgshhmahbgsg"
- milsorgen 4y ago
  I let my personalized Google feed on Android open links in Chrome and it is astounding how hostile some of these sites are getting in regards to their advertising. I had no idea it had gotten this bad again without at least some ad blocking. Popups haven't returned to any meaningful degree but even so surely this isn't sustainable as I would imagine a sizable portion of web users are not using ad blocking.
ericmcer 4y ago
Yeh this was an ad riddled nightmare. I would call it more an example of how to subvert modern ad blockers than an example of great web design. The bullet point lists are literally broken up with targeted ads that look like relevant info to the page itself.
scottLobster 4y ago
Why did the Turks tolerate crappy construction in an earthquake zone? Large businesses are by definition hard to compete with. As for why they do it, businesses are fundamentally amoral. Take your average Silicon Valley entrepreneur and transplant them into Somalia with no way to leave, and they'd be figuring out the ideal way to capture cargo ships and hold their crews for ransom. Then if said crews were raped by some misbehaving underlings, they'd try to disguise it to maximize the profits. It's the meta joke behind the entire Silicon Valley TV series. Some characters are more likeable than others, but almost all of the key players are fundamentally incompetent/insecure/exploitative people that you wouldn't want in your life given the option.
- naniwaduni 4y ago
  Locations are fundamentally scarce, but I'm sure they're totally willing to adopt earthquake-resistant construction techniques from elsewhere?
  - 2muchcoffeeman 4y ago
    To solve a housing shortage, there were construction amnesties. Which the president even boasted about.
- canadianfella 4y ago
  [dead]
- account42 4y ago
  It isn't just large businesses that are adding these dialogs to their sites though. Even some blogs or websites built by individuals have cookie consent and newsletter popups because that's what people are used to building. It's a cultural issue and it's maddening that people just put up with it when most have experienced a better web.
newaccount2023 4y ago
[flagged]
- stonogo 4y ago
  That's funny, I see GDPR popups as serving two functions: a daily reminder that Europe has better privacy protections than I do, and website project managers would rather plague the world with unnecesary bullshit than just stop serving unnecessary cookies.
  - charcircuit 4y ago
    >just stop serving unnecessary cookies. If they were truly unnecessary they wouldn't use it because cookie banners are bad ux.
    - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
      And over-leveraging your bank is bad business, but they do it anyway.
    - 2muchcoffeeman 4y ago
      Is this a serious comment? Have you never worked on a large website or even looked at the cookies in the browser?
      - charcircuit 4y ago
        Yes, and considering removing the cookie popup will move metrics, is easily A/B testable, and improves the design it isn't hard to organize an internal effort to remove cookies that aren't actually essential so you can remove the popup.
        2muchcoffeeman 4y ago
        Consider that not only do these pop ups still exist, but the “accept all” button is often prominently displayed or highlighted so it’s the easiest to click. And that looking for the “essential cookies only” button still results in a working website. Also consider that these guys are always A/B testing. A previous employer of mine had multiple features under test at any time. You also don’t think that a whole bunch of developers never thought of just removing all the stuff that wasn’t essential?
lr4444lr 4y ago
The modern web makes more money than the "spray and pray" ad affiliate links model that crashed in 2001.
ilrwbwrkhv 4y ago
Those loading skeleton irritates me to no end. Sometimes they don't go away, and I'm left wondering what is going on. This is just so much better. Solid, dependable, nothing shifts around.
bobthepanda 4y ago
I am wondering who pays for it. Most of the free websites from that era disappeared because their business models went belly-up during the dotcom boom.
7speter 4y ago
Because facebook sets the norms.

jpmattia 4y ago

> No popups asking you to subscribe, register, or download a mobile app https://exrx.net/Drugs/Caffeine https://exrx.net/Drugs/Caffeine

travisporter 4y ago
Still not a pop up
mostlysimilar 4y ago
Premium features and gated content are not inherently bad. We all want to make money. Gaudy and intrusive pop-ups, banners, and things that try to pull me to that content is bad. The difference between being pulled into it and seeking content myself is an important one. Services that annoy people into doing what they want may get short term results but are generating a lot of ill-will for the medium and long term. This website even has reasonable advertisements in the side-bar. No floating videos that auto-play, no ads injected right in the middle of the content I'm reading. Just a plain old ad on the right side of the content.
- rchaud 4y ago
  When I was using this site a lot back in 2009, it really was ad-free. Even more minimal than what it is now. Each exercise page had a super-small dithered GIF image of a person doing the exercise. Those seem to be gone now.

altairprime 4y ago

It’s time-expensive and not easily automated to write “rewrite” logic for sites. Think an order of magnitude more difficult than Reader Mode, because you need to incorporate the nav links and forms.

criddell 4y ago

> - No popups asking you to subscribe, register, or download a mobile app I’ve been wondering why ad blockers aren’t better about blocking these. I’m not sure when the last time was when I got a popup on a website that was something I wanted to see.

strulovich 4y ago
I know very little of the subject. But maybe since ads generally arrive from other domains, making them easy to differentiate from the site’s content, while these popup are part of the website and are much harder to distinguish reliably, making it harder to build such a tool (which I assume does exist).
stanac 4y ago
uBlock origin has annoyances filters for exactly that. They aren't turn on by default.
- OrwellianChild 4y ago
  I did not know this - thank you!
rchaud 4y ago
Adblockers usually apply a combination of a network filter and a CSS filter to block the offending 3rd party script, and make the HTML element containing the ads invisible. While network filters are still working well, it's getting harder to block on-site elements like popups because web frameworks often generate nonsensical class names to apply on divs, to prevent Developer A's class names and styles from conflicting with Developer B's. So if previously you could successfully hide the HTML email popup container by looking for the class/id "ad-container", you won't be able to do that if the class/id changes to "xxgsgshhmahbgsg"
milsorgen 4y ago
I let my personalized Google feed on Android open links in Chrome and it is astounding how hostile some of these sites are getting in regards to their advertising. I had no idea it had gotten this bad again without at least some ad blocking. Popups haven't returned to any meaningful degree but even so surely this isn't sustainable as I would imagine a sizable portion of web users are not using ad blocking.

ericmcer 4y ago

Yeh this was an ad riddled nightmare. I would call it more an example of how to subvert modern ad blockers than an example of great web design. The bullet point lists are literally broken up with targeted ads that look like relevant info to the page itself.

scottLobster 4y ago

Why did the Turks tolerate crappy construction in an earthquake zone? Large businesses are by definition hard to compete with. As for why they do it, businesses are fundamentally amoral. Take your average Silicon Valley entrepreneur and transplant them into Somalia with no way to leave, and they'd be figuring out the ideal way to capture cargo ships and hold their crews for ransom. Then if said crews were raped by some misbehaving underlings, they'd try to disguise it to maximize the profits. It's the meta joke behind the entire Silicon Valley TV series. Some characters are more likeable than others, but almost all of the key players are fundamentally incompetent/insecure/exploitative people that you wouldn't want in your life given the option.

naniwaduni 4y ago
Locations are fundamentally scarce, but I'm sure they're totally willing to adopt earthquake-resistant construction techniques from elsewhere?
- 2muchcoffeeman 4y ago
  To solve a housing shortage, there were construction amnesties. Which the president even boasted about.
canadianfella 4y ago
[dead]
account42 4y ago
It isn't just large businesses that are adding these dialogs to their sites though. Even some blogs or websites built by individuals have cookie consent and newsletter popups because that's what people are used to building. It's a cultural issue and it's maddening that people just put up with it when most have experienced a better web.

newaccount2023 4y ago

[flagged]

stonogo 4y ago
That's funny, I see GDPR popups as serving two functions: a daily reminder that Europe has better privacy protections than I do, and website project managers would rather plague the world with unnecesary bullshit than just stop serving unnecessary cookies.
- charcircuit 4y ago
  >just stop serving unnecessary cookies. If they were truly unnecessary they wouldn't use it because cookie banners are bad ux.
  - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
    And over-leveraging your bank is bad business, but they do it anyway.
  - 2muchcoffeeman 4y ago
    Is this a serious comment? Have you never worked on a large website or even looked at the cookies in the browser?
    - charcircuit 4y ago
      Yes, and considering removing the cookie popup will move metrics, is easily A/B testable, and improves the design it isn't hard to organize an internal effort to remove cookies that aren't actually essential so you can remove the popup.
      - 2muchcoffeeman 4y ago
        Consider that not only do these pop ups still exist, but the “accept all” button is often prominently displayed or highlighted so it’s the easiest to click. And that looking for the “essential cookies only” button still results in a working website. Also consider that these guys are always A/B testing. A previous employer of mine had multiple features under test at any time. You also don’t think that a whole bunch of developers never thought of just removing all the stuff that wasn’t essential?

lr4444lr 4y ago

The modern web makes more money than the "spray and pray" ad affiliate links model that crashed in 2001.

ilrwbwrkhv 4y ago

Those loading skeleton irritates me to no end. Sometimes they don't go away, and I'm left wondering what is going on. This is just so much better. Solid, dependable, nothing shifts around.

bobthepanda 4y ago

I am wondering who pays for it. Most of the free websites from that era disappeared because their business models went belly-up during the dotcom boom.

7speter 4y ago

Because facebook sets the norms.