4 ms·

Debugging Architects

35 points by kiyanwang 4y ago

dianeb 4y ago
There is nothing useful here. Don't waste your time.
Espressosaurus 4y ago
Garbage that could have been written by chat-gpt.
- userbinator 4y ago
  That thought came to mind when I read it too, but it seems even more vague than what ChatGPT normally produces.
jheitmann 4y ago
Should thinkers read? As a thinker, I thought I'd venture here to the reading room to see if I could glean any data-driven insights. What I found was a new form of Readable Thinking Words (aka "writing") called a blog. After a moments perusal I realized this was a kind of web log, something I'd come across in my last reading room excursion 20 years ago. Despite my ignorance, I knew I'd be able to leverage my thinkability into something positive for the readers, so I decided to leave this enriching comment. What a huge improvement for you all! Thinkers really should read every now and then.
- marginalia_nu 4y ago
  This is something I call External Thought Driven Decision Infrastructure. If you sign up for my newsletter, you'll receive a free 14 page pdf outlining the groundbreaking method.
seabass-labrax 4y ago
For me, the most important point here is that one can often miss the opportunity to verify that one really does understand the dependencies of a system without putting the 'ivory tower' theory into practice. Writing your own replacement for a dependency can help you educate yourself on that layer of the stack, but risks missing the unique nuances of individual pieces of software. Furthermore, debugging specific dependencies allows you to confirm that you really do understand both the subsystem in general and the particular subsystem that a larger system relies upon. Debugging Nginx might improve my understanding of HTTP servers, but that's only half of the story if my system runs on Apache!
29athrowaway 4y ago
Software architecture means different things to many people. In the case of buildings, architects are responsible for how people interact with a building, designing spaces that facilitate activities and experiences. In the case of software, anything fucking goes. The consensus, represented by the median architect, is that a software architect is some Gandalf looking guy who doesn't have to do anything other than to look wise and nod occasionally.
CipherThrowaway 4y ago
>Despite my technical ignorance, my contribution to the debugging exercise came in two forms. For one, to look for blind spots, areas that a developer would normally not look. My condolences to whichever dev had to debug this problem with this architect hanging over his shoulder giving "helpful" suggestions and taking credit for the result. What a rort.
dalmo3 4y ago
PSA: it's about Software architects. It's interesting the writer goes out of his way to avoid using the term "Software Architect", even though it's in the title of his book. Is that a form of anti-seo seo?
- FearNotDaniel 4y ago
  Yeah, it's the same problem as people continually introducing themselves with "I'm an Engineer", especially in a totally non-software social context. No you're not. You're a coder, a developer, a programmer, a _software_ engineer, if you absolutely insist on using the E-word. But not just "an engineer". That is someone who builds things in the physical world, often things that kill people if they fall over or crash.
  - adhesive_wombat 4y ago
    > That is someone who builds things in the physical world, often things that kill people if they fall over or crash. Building contractors do that too, but they're not engineers. I would say engineering is more about the design process than the actual physical making. Indeed, there usually is, eventually, intended to be a tangible result of the process, be it a bridge, ship, hairdryer, silicon wafer or container of purified chemicals. However, not all engineering has to involve making a new thing to be engineering, it can also be more efficient or effective processes that contribute to, but are not themselves, production.
itisit 4y ago
This metaphorical fluff of elevators, penthouses, and engine rooms is compelling to the c-suite and those adjacent, particularly in enterprise IT. Like when the overlap of a Venn diagram has "data-driven synergy" or "unrealized business value" along with a few bullet points. Consultancies love spitting this stuff out, as it gives the illiterate a new vocabulary that can feel empowering. It's amusing to see Hohpe's spiel fail in front of a more scrutinous audience like HN.
gaudat 4y ago
The page banner / preview image shows the Tacoma Narrows Bridge, and so I clicked in hoping to see some wisdom from a building architect or structural engineer. I am very disappointed to just see something written by MBAs to MBAs ...
- runxel 4y ago
  Same... I hate it that they borrowed this term to give them credibility. They are no architects.

35 points by kiyanwang 4y ago

dianeb 4y ago

There is nothing useful here. Don't waste your time.

Espressosaurus 4y ago

Garbage that could have been written by chat-gpt.

userbinator 4y ago
That thought came to mind when I read it too, but it seems even more vague than what ChatGPT normally produces.

jheitmann 4y ago

Should thinkers read? As a thinker, I thought I'd venture here to the reading room to see if I could glean any data-driven insights. What I found was a new form of Readable Thinking Words (aka "writing") called a blog. After a moments perusal I realized this was a kind of web log, something I'd come across in my last reading room excursion 20 years ago. Despite my ignorance, I knew I'd be able to leverage my thinkability into something positive for the readers, so I decided to leave this enriching comment. What a huge improvement for you all! Thinkers really should read every now and then.

marginalia_nu 4y ago
This is something I call External Thought Driven Decision Infrastructure. If you sign up for my newsletter, you'll receive a free 14 page pdf outlining the groundbreaking method.

seabass-labrax 4y ago

For me, the most important point here is that one can often miss the opportunity to verify that one really does understand the dependencies of a system without putting the 'ivory tower' theory into practice. Writing your own replacement for a dependency can help you educate yourself on that layer of the stack, but risks missing the unique nuances of individual pieces of software. Furthermore, debugging specific dependencies allows you to confirm that you really do understand both the subsystem in general and the particular subsystem that a larger system relies upon. Debugging Nginx might improve my understanding of HTTP servers, but that's only half of the story if my system runs on Apache!

29athrowaway 4y ago

Software architecture means different things to many people. In the case of buildings, architects are responsible for how people interact with a building, designing spaces that facilitate activities and experiences. In the case of software, anything fucking goes. The consensus, represented by the median architect, is that a software architect is some Gandalf looking guy who doesn't have to do anything other than to look wise and nod occasionally.

CipherThrowaway 4y ago

>Despite my technical ignorance, my contribution to the debugging exercise came in two forms. For one, to look for blind spots, areas that a developer would normally not look. My condolences to whichever dev had to debug this problem with this architect hanging over his shoulder giving "helpful" suggestions and taking credit for the result. What a rort.

dalmo3 4y ago

PSA: it's about Software architects. It's interesting the writer goes out of his way to avoid using the term "Software Architect", even though it's in the title of his book. Is that a form of anti-seo seo?

FearNotDaniel 4y ago
Yeah, it's the same problem as people continually introducing themselves with "I'm an Engineer", especially in a totally non-software social context. No you're not. You're a coder, a developer, a programmer, a _software_ engineer, if you absolutely insist on using the E-word. But not just "an engineer". That is someone who builds things in the physical world, often things that kill people if they fall over or crash.
- adhesive_wombat 4y ago
  > That is someone who builds things in the physical world, often things that kill people if they fall over or crash. Building contractors do that too, but they're not engineers. I would say engineering is more about the design process than the actual physical making. Indeed, there usually is, eventually, intended to be a tangible result of the process, be it a bridge, ship, hairdryer, silicon wafer or container of purified chemicals. However, not all engineering has to involve making a new thing to be engineering, it can also be more efficient or effective processes that contribute to, but are not themselves, production.

itisit 4y ago

This metaphorical fluff of elevators, penthouses, and engine rooms is compelling to the c-suite and those adjacent, particularly in enterprise IT. Like when the overlap of a Venn diagram has "data-driven synergy" or "unrealized business value" along with a few bullet points. Consultancies love spitting this stuff out, as it gives the illiterate a new vocabulary that can feel empowering. It's amusing to see Hohpe's spiel fail in front of a more scrutinous audience like HN.

gaudat 4y ago

The page banner / preview image shows the Tacoma Narrows Bridge, and so I clicked in hoping to see some wisdom from a building architect or structural engineer. I am very disappointed to just see something written by MBAs to MBAs ...

runxel 4y ago
Same... I hate it that they borrowed this term to give them credibility. They are no architects.