5 ms·

In many countries it's hostile legislation to make it worse and increase soft costs. Australia was only recently allowed to include batteries on solar.

skissane 4y ago
> Australia was only recently allowed to include batteries on solar. Source? Tesla Powerwall was introduced into the Australian market in 2015. From what I understand, other residential systems existed before that, but they were uncommon. In 2019, they significantly tightened the safety standards, but the impact on people running approved off-the-shelf systems (such as Tesla's) is modest (tighter rules on installation locations may cause issues for some people, especially smaller properties–although those rules only apply to new installs, existing installs are grandfathered), most of the added burden is on those rare people who have bespoke systems.
- Schroedingersat 4y ago
  Utility, not residential.
  - skissane 4y ago
    When you are this brief, I’m left guessing as to exactly what you are saying.
defrost 4y ago
I'm with @ skissane on asking for a source here. FWiW myself and friends put a solar power system with recon'd Telstra batteries together for an off the grid house out the back of Bridgetown (W.Australia) in the mid 1980s. Given it was private land and farming jack of all trades engineering maybe it was "illegal" - but I recall no mention of that at the time in any of the magazines we read and ears we pulled.
lost_tourist 4y ago
I find it hard to believe it was against the law to use batteries to store excess solar power.
- defrost 4y ago
  I'm guessing the comment was about regulating against sufficient large battery installations in a dense urban setting until standards where in place. Australia has a high (very high by world standards) % of houses with solar panels on the roof which feed power back to the main grid (in cities and surrounding towns) which minimises the need for battery walls (which will no doubt come soon enough). In (sub)urban housing in Australia it's against zoning for residential houses to have large tire piles (ie an entire yard of old car tyres with more house high stacks out the back) due to the dangers of dirty fires, ditto having a shipping container of fireworks next your house (and other houses in area), massive fuel tanks, etc. I dare say large battery walls were also zoned against until plans were in place re: standards, etc. Australia does have neighbourhoos battery banks here and there, one that serves 200 houses (at mean consumption) can be purchased for ~ $1 million AU (IIRC) - and there's the South Australian battery bank that was the world's largest when it was installed.
  - skissane 4y ago
    > In (sub)urban housing in Australia it's against zoning for residential houses to have large tire piles (ie an entire yard of old car tyres with more house high stacks out the back) due to the dangers of dirty fires, ditto having a shipping container of fireworks next your house (and other houses in area), massive fuel tanks, etc. From what I understand, planning regulations (Australia's "zoning laws") don't always specifically prohibit those things. Rather, it is illegal to have something dangerous on a property, especially a residential one – but rather than list every possible thing that could be dangerous, it is more that local government has the power to decide on a case-by-case basis, and you can challenge their decision in the courts if you disagree with it. Some of those things – such as explosives (fireworks) – are also primarily regulated by state agencies, rather than local governments (who have the primary responsibility for zoning). Unlike the US (for instance), we don't have local fire departments, the fire department (or "fire brigade" or "fire service" or "fire authority", which are more common terms in Australian English) is generally a state government agency, and it shares responsibility with local governments for fire safety. Zoning intersects with some aspects of fire safety – building setbacks are often partially motivated by fire safety concerns, but also by other concerns such as visual amenity – other aspects of fire safety regulation are really orthogonal to zoning. > I dare say large battery walls were also zoned against until plans were in place re: standards, etc. I don't think there was ever a rule per se against battery systems in residential areas (and especially not a "zoning" rule). There are a set of known risks that they pose – fire, arc flash, electric shock, chemical burns, etc – and you need to prove you are adequately managing those risks. Before commercial off-the-shelf systems were widely available, you'd have some bespoke system requiring review on a case-by-case basis – obviously that's a lot more time-consuming, expensive and uncertain in outcome. With a commercial off-the-shelf system, the manufacturer will get it approved as a type, and then it just becomes the much easier question if this particular install is following the rules for that type approval.

skissane 4y ago

> Australia was only recently allowed to include batteries on solar. Source? Tesla Powerwall was introduced into the Australian market in 2015. From what I understand, other residential systems existed before that, but they were uncommon. In 2019, they significantly tightened the safety standards, but the impact on people running approved off-the-shelf systems (such as Tesla's) is modest (tighter rules on installation locations may cause issues for some people, especially smaller properties–although those rules only apply to new installs, existing installs are grandfathered), most of the added burden is on those rare people who have bespoke systems.

Schroedingersat 4y ago
Utility, not residential.
- skissane 4y ago
  When you are this brief, I’m left guessing as to exactly what you are saying.

defrost 4y ago

I'm with @ skissane on asking for a source here. FWiW myself and friends put a solar power system with recon'd Telstra batteries together for an off the grid house out the back of Bridgetown (W.Australia) in the mid 1980s. Given it was private land and farming jack of all trades engineering maybe it was "illegal" - but I recall no mention of that at the time in any of the magazines we read and ears we pulled.

lost_tourist 4y ago

I find it hard to believe it was against the law to use batteries to store excess solar power.

defrost 4y ago
I'm guessing the comment was about regulating against sufficient large battery installations in a dense urban setting until standards where in place. Australia has a high (very high by world standards) % of houses with solar panels on the roof which feed power back to the main grid (in cities and surrounding towns) which minimises the need for battery walls (which will no doubt come soon enough). In (sub)urban housing in Australia it's against zoning for residential houses to have large tire piles (ie an entire yard of old car tyres with more house high stacks out the back) due to the dangers of dirty fires, ditto having a shipping container of fireworks next your house (and other houses in area), massive fuel tanks, etc. I dare say large battery walls were also zoned against until plans were in place re: standards, etc. Australia does have neighbourhoos battery banks here and there, one that serves 200 houses (at mean consumption) can be purchased for ~ $1 million AU (IIRC) - and there's the South Australian battery bank that was the world's largest when it was installed.
- skissane 4y ago
  > In (sub)urban housing in Australia it's against zoning for residential houses to have large tire piles (ie an entire yard of old car tyres with more house high stacks out the back) due to the dangers of dirty fires, ditto having a shipping container of fireworks next your house (and other houses in area), massive fuel tanks, etc. From what I understand, planning regulations (Australia's "zoning laws") don't always specifically prohibit those things. Rather, it is illegal to have something dangerous on a property, especially a residential one – but rather than list every possible thing that could be dangerous, it is more that local government has the power to decide on a case-by-case basis, and you can challenge their decision in the courts if you disagree with it. Some of those things – such as explosives (fireworks) – are also primarily regulated by state agencies, rather than local governments (who have the primary responsibility for zoning). Unlike the US (for instance), we don't have local fire departments, the fire department (or "fire brigade" or "fire service" or "fire authority", which are more common terms in Australian English) is generally a state government agency, and it shares responsibility with local governments for fire safety. Zoning intersects with some aspects of fire safety – building setbacks are often partially motivated by fire safety concerns, but also by other concerns such as visual amenity – other aspects of fire safety regulation are really orthogonal to zoning. > I dare say large battery walls were also zoned against until plans were in place re: standards, etc. I don't think there was ever a rule per se against battery systems in residential areas (and especially not a "zoning" rule). There are a set of known risks that they pose – fire, arc flash, electric shock, chemical burns, etc – and you need to prove you are adequately managing those risks. Before commercial off-the-shelf systems were widely available, you'd have some bespoke system requiring review on a case-by-case basis – obviously that's a lot more time-consuming, expensive and uncertain in outcome. With a commercial off-the-shelf system, the manufacturer will get it approved as a type, and then it just becomes the much easier question if this particular install is following the rules for that type approval.