4 ms·

consumers don't really care about marketing at the end of the day. i live in austria. no official apple store. no apple billboards, tv ads, etc. apple market

consumers don't really care about marketing at the end of the day. i live in austria. no official apple store. no apple billboards, tv ads, etc. apple marketing is non-existent. and still they sell. like hotcakes. die-hard apple haters succumb and by an iMac. because the products are great. great value for their money. and i don't get your backpedalling. your comment starts with "it's called marketing" and then you're piling on. no consumer "bonds" with a company because of marketing. that's pure drivel. consumers bond with value. if they feel they are treated nice, that they get value for their money. that's the "secret". classic marketing hates it, MBAs too. products matter? wtf. Zappos understands this. Porsche, BMW, etc too.

jonnathanson 15y ago
"and i don't get your backpedalling. your comment starts with "it's called marketing" and then you're piling on." I'm not "backpeddling." I'm clarifying in response to your misreading of my post. You and I are actually in total agreement as regards the quality, and emphasis on quality, of Apple's products. It just so happens that I didn't bring up product quality in my original post, because it wasn't the point I was responding to in the grandparent comment. "no consumer "bonds" with a company because of marketing. that's pure drivel. consumers bond with value. if they feel they are treated nice, that they get value for their money." Here I disagree. I think you're creating a false dichotomy between value and messaging. If "value" is all that matters to a consumer, then a lot of companies would be more successful than they are today. Apple, for instance, has been making great products for more than 30 years. But it hasn't been wildly successful for all of those 30 years. If you're telling me that Apple's marketing turnaround circa the late 90s had nothing to do with its success, you're way off the mark. Product has always played a huge role in Apple's success, but so has its marketing. Steve Jobs himself has said as much in countless interviews, in his biography, and elsewhere. Apple's product design and Apple's marketing have been crucial to Apple's success, but to subtract marketing from that equation is silly. (Full disclosure: I am a former Apple employee who worked in both product and in marketing). Finally, I don't understand the need for your hostility here. I'm a "nerd," I'm "nerdy," it's "people like me" who make the world a terrible place, etc., etc., etc. Can we lay off the personal attacks and converse like civil adults? If you took the time to read what I'm saying more carefully, you'd see that you and I are in a lot more agreement than disagreement. Let's have fun with these discussions. I suspect we're all fairly nerdy, to be honest. I know I am. I probably wouldn't be coming to a site called "Hacker News" if I weren't!
- kahawe 15y ago
  I do not really understand what the dis-agreement here is about. For me it is very clear that Apple was one of the first (or at least few) PC companies that really understood how to both engineer AND market to a broader range of customers. And I completely agree, most manufacturers and companies were and some still are selling you specs - while Apple sold you a shiny iPod, an easy way to buy a single song instead of a whole album and the passion of listening to music and being able to take your whole collection with you. And this is where they finally got decent market penetration and with enough market penetration, the iPod was selling practically automatically because everybody wanted one. And then they applied that same principles and came up with a shiny smartphone and single-handedly created the smartphone hype we see now. And then they did it again with the iPad, even created a new market that has not existed before. And again, those devices ended up selling like crazy. By no means were those ground-breaking innovations but they were the first ones in those three markets to offer something that ultimately "everybody" wants. They have shown how to elegantly bypass that specs-war and engineer and market on a completely different dimension thus catching every single competitor off-guard. (see also Nintendo and Wii) And they knew and understood very well what the majority of customers really like or care about: how it looks, feels and how you interact with it.
kahawe 15y ago
> no official apple store. no apple billboards, tv ads, etc. apple marketing is non-existent These are FAR from being the only means of apple marketing YOU are being exposed to. I think even in the States while the iPod was catching on, apple was never very heavy on billboards or tv spots. They never had to rely on those channels alone to reach people. (And hello, fellow Austrian!)
kahawe 15y ago
> consumers bond with value. > Porsche, BMW And who do you think actually dictates that value of a BMW or Porsche vs. a VW or Merc? Image, marketing and market segmentation. Way more than actual product value or actual quality... And getting that perceived value into people's minds is marketing's job and billboards and tv ads are just one, old fashioned way, of doing that. BMW, Porsche, Ferrari and Lamborghini don't need no tv ads - why do you think that is? Apple understands that extremely well.
astine 15y ago
It's posts like this which most clearly demonstrate why people dislike Apple advocates. Your words make it seem like you're unable to consider that Apple's success might be partly due to something that you consider superficial, like marketing, rather than something substantial, like engineering or customer support. This makes you seem irrational or at least overly personally involved and that really puts people off. EDIT: To be clear, I don't really know you, I'm only basing this on these two posts of yours.

jonnathanson 15y ago

"and i don't get your backpedalling. your comment starts with "it's called marketing" and then you're piling on." I'm not "backpeddling." I'm clarifying in response to your misreading of my post. You and I are actually in total agreement as regards the quality, and emphasis on quality, of Apple's products. It just so happens that I didn't bring up product quality in my original post, because it wasn't the point I was responding to in the grandparent comment. "no consumer "bonds" with a company because of marketing. that's pure drivel. consumers bond with value. if they feel they are treated nice, that they get value for their money." Here I disagree. I think you're creating a false dichotomy between value and messaging. If "value" is all that matters to a consumer, then a lot of companies would be more successful than they are today. Apple, for instance, has been making great products for more than 30 years. But it hasn't been wildly successful for all of those 30 years. If you're telling me that Apple's marketing turnaround circa the late 90s had nothing to do with its success, you're way off the mark. Product has always played a huge role in Apple's success, but so has its marketing. Steve Jobs himself has said as much in countless interviews, in his biography, and elsewhere. Apple's product design and Apple's marketing have been crucial to Apple's success, but to subtract marketing from that equation is silly. (Full disclosure: I am a former Apple employee who worked in both product and in marketing). Finally, I don't understand the need for your hostility here. I'm a "nerd," I'm "nerdy," it's "people like me" who make the world a terrible place, etc., etc., etc. Can we lay off the personal attacks and converse like civil adults? If you took the time to read what I'm saying more carefully, you'd see that you and I are in a lot more agreement than disagreement. Let's have fun with these discussions. I suspect we're all fairly nerdy, to be honest. I know I am. I probably wouldn't be coming to a site called "Hacker News" if I weren't!

kahawe 15y ago
I do not really understand what the dis-agreement here is about. For me it is very clear that Apple was one of the first (or at least few) PC companies that really understood how to both engineer AND market to a broader range of customers. And I completely agree, most manufacturers and companies were and some still are selling you specs - while Apple sold you a shiny iPod, an easy way to buy a single song instead of a whole album and the passion of listening to music and being able to take your whole collection with you. And this is where they finally got decent market penetration and with enough market penetration, the iPod was selling practically automatically because everybody wanted one. And then they applied that same principles and came up with a shiny smartphone and single-handedly created the smartphone hype we see now. And then they did it again with the iPad, even created a new market that has not existed before. And again, those devices ended up selling like crazy. By no means were those ground-breaking innovations but they were the first ones in those three markets to offer something that ultimately "everybody" wants. They have shown how to elegantly bypass that specs-war and engineer and market on a completely different dimension thus catching every single competitor off-guard. (see also Nintendo and Wii) And they knew and understood very well what the majority of customers really like or care about: how it looks, feels and how you interact with it.

kahawe 15y ago

> no official apple store. no apple billboards, tv ads, etc. apple marketing is non-existent These are FAR from being the only means of apple marketing YOU are being exposed to. I think even in the States while the iPod was catching on, apple was never very heavy on billboards or tv spots. They never had to rely on those channels alone to reach people. (And hello, fellow Austrian!)

kahawe 15y ago

> consumers bond with value. > Porsche, BMW And who do you think actually dictates that value of a BMW or Porsche vs. a VW or Merc? Image, marketing and market segmentation. Way more than actual product value or actual quality... And getting that perceived value into people's minds is marketing's job and billboards and tv ads are just one, old fashioned way, of doing that. BMW, Porsche, Ferrari and Lamborghini don't need no tv ads - why do you think that is? Apple understands that extremely well.

astine 15y ago

It's posts like this which most clearly demonstrate why people dislike Apple advocates. Your words make it seem like you're unable to consider that Apple's success might be partly due to something that you consider superficial, like marketing, rather than something substantial, like engineering or customer support. This makes you seem irrational or at least overly personally involved and that really puts people off. EDIT: To be clear, I don't really know you, I'm only basing this on these two posts of yours.