12 ms·

> nobody is stopping and thinking To trivial questions no, but to more complex questions humans actually does go "hmm, let me think". ChatGPT doesn't do that,

> nobody is stopping and thinking To trivial questions no, but to more complex questions humans actually does go "hmm, let me think". ChatGPT doesn't do that, it just blurts out the first thing that gets into its head regardless if the question is trivial or extremely complex.

taneq 4y ago
Have you tried telling it to? “No, think a bit harder about it.”
jmoss20 4y ago
Which makes you wonder what would happen if you gave ChatGPT two streams of output: one for "speech" and one for inner-monologue-style "thinking". For most of our "hmm, let me think"'s I'm not sure what we do is significantly more complicated than that. We just get to hide the inner monologue.
- Jensson 4y ago
  Letting it decide how much time computing an answer instead of making it spend the same amount of time per text token could definitely help a lot. Right now it spends the same amount of energy processing each token, but that doesn't make sense, "hello, how are you" should take basically no processing while hard logical problems should take a lot. Maybe these language models could be way smaller and cheaper if we added a recurse symbol to it that made it iterate many times. Hard tasks would still take a lot, but most banal conversations would be very cheap.
  - jmoss20 4y ago
    This does indeed improve efficiency significantly: https://arxiv.org/abs/2207.07061 https://arxiv.org/abs/2207.07061
- flangola7 4y ago
  >one for inner-monologue-style "thinking". I'm not sure I know what you're talking about.
  - taneq 4y ago
    And here we go on the aphantasia / does everyone have an inner monologue / can you make your ears rumble / do you sit or stand when pooping train. :P
    - zoklet-enjoyer 4y ago
      Make your ears rumble? Stand while pooping? What???
      - taneq 4y ago
        https://happymag.tv/apparently-ear-rumbling-is-a-thing-and-only-some-people-can-do-it/ https://happymag.tv/apparently-ear-rumbling-is-a-thing-and-o... https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/ajhnv/sit_or_stand_while_wiping/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/ajhnv/sit_or_sta... I misremembered, it was wiping apparently.
Sevii 4y ago
Most people's inner monologue does blurt out the first thing that gets into its head. The human brain has a bunch of different parts. And it's looking like one of them could be something like an LLM.
- oliveshell 4y ago
  > it's looking like one of them could be something like an LLM I love your enthusiasm in this direction (I really do). But here's some free advice I won't be able to prove for a long time: Anyone who is currently convinced that somehow our fledgling efforts in the direction of building useful ML models are somehow going to yield a new golden age of neuroscience and understanding of the brain-- rather than the other way around-- is gonna be in for a long and frustrating next couple of decades, especially if they're low-openness types.
  - cardine 4y ago
    I don't think the person you were responding to was claiming that. The brain plausibly having something akin to a language model doesn't imply that building or studying language models will unlock a better understanding of the brain.
uoaei 4y ago
> humans actually does go "hmm, let me think" Eh, HN is supposed to be "better" than your standard public forum and we still always end up making habitual arguments, not truly reasonable ones. I find your hope inspiring but not enough to ignore my senses.
knome 4y ago
>ChatGPT doesn't do that It can if you give it the option. My own openai chatbot prompts to either respond or to ponder by stating a question or considering a related idea. It infrequently will decide to ponder for one to about a dozen times as it restates an idea to itself in various forms, which gets recorded into the growing conversational prompt. Elsewhere in the thread, someone mentions it always uses the same amount of time. In my estimation, it will spend longer on introspective or recursive prompts. Easier to get it ranting absurdities using those as well. It's always the craziest chatter when the request takes a couple minutes to get back to me.
- antondd 4y ago
  Could you share the initial prompt for your chatbot? I would love to experiment with it
- Jensson 4y ago
  I think the big breakthrough will come once it uses inner monologues during training. You can jury rig an inner monologue like that, but it isn't the same thing as training a model from scratch that is optimized to solve problems using inner monologues.
- taneq 4y ago
  Does its execution time vary based on the content of the query?

taneq 4y ago

Have you tried telling it to? “No, think a bit harder about it.”

jmoss20 4y ago

Which makes you wonder what would happen if you gave ChatGPT two streams of output: one for "speech" and one for inner-monologue-style "thinking". For most of our "hmm, let me think"'s I'm not sure what we do is significantly more complicated than that. We just get to hide the inner monologue.

Jensson 4y ago
Letting it decide how much time computing an answer instead of making it spend the same amount of time per text token could definitely help a lot. Right now it spends the same amount of energy processing each token, but that doesn't make sense, "hello, how are you" should take basically no processing while hard logical problems should take a lot. Maybe these language models could be way smaller and cheaper if we added a recurse symbol to it that made it iterate many times. Hard tasks would still take a lot, but most banal conversations would be very cheap.
- jmoss20 4y ago
  This does indeed improve efficiency significantly: https://arxiv.org/abs/2207.07061 https://arxiv.org/abs/2207.07061
flangola7 4y ago
>one for inner-monologue-style "thinking". I'm not sure I know what you're talking about.
- taneq 4y ago
  And here we go on the aphantasia / does everyone have an inner monologue / can you make your ears rumble / do you sit or stand when pooping train. :P
  - zoklet-enjoyer 4y ago
    Make your ears rumble? Stand while pooping? What???
    - taneq 4y ago
      https://happymag.tv/apparently-ear-rumbling-is-a-thing-and-only-some-people-can-do-it/ https://happymag.tv/apparently-ear-rumbling-is-a-thing-and-o... https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/ajhnv/sit_or_stand_while_wiping/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/ajhnv/sit_or_sta... I misremembered, it was wiping apparently.

Sevii 4y ago

Most people's inner monologue does blurt out the first thing that gets into its head. The human brain has a bunch of different parts. And it's looking like one of them could be something like an LLM.

oliveshell 4y ago
> it's looking like one of them could be something like an LLM I love your enthusiasm in this direction (I really do). But here's some free advice I won't be able to prove for a long time: Anyone who is currently convinced that somehow our fledgling efforts in the direction of building useful ML models are somehow going to yield a new golden age of neuroscience and understanding of the brain-- rather than the other way around-- is gonna be in for a long and frustrating next couple of decades, especially if they're low-openness types.
- cardine 4y ago
  I don't think the person you were responding to was claiming that. The brain plausibly having something akin to a language model doesn't imply that building or studying language models will unlock a better understanding of the brain.

uoaei 4y ago

> humans actually does go "hmm, let me think" Eh, HN is supposed to be "better" than your standard public forum and we still always end up making habitual arguments, not truly reasonable ones. I find your hope inspiring but not enough to ignore my senses.

knome 4y ago

>ChatGPT doesn't do that It can if you give it the option. My own openai chatbot prompts to either respond or to ponder by stating a question or considering a related idea. It infrequently will decide to ponder for one to about a dozen times as it restates an idea to itself in various forms, which gets recorded into the growing conversational prompt. Elsewhere in the thread, someone mentions it always uses the same amount of time. In my estimation, it will spend longer on introspective or recursive prompts. Easier to get it ranting absurdities using those as well. It's always the craziest chatter when the request takes a couple minutes to get back to me.

antondd 4y ago
Could you share the initial prompt for your chatbot? I would love to experiment with it
Jensson 4y ago
I think the big breakthrough will come once it uses inner monologues during training. You can jury rig an inner monologue like that, but it isn't the same thing as training a model from scratch that is optimized to solve problems using inner monologues.
taneq 4y ago
Does its execution time vary based on the content of the query?