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I admit, it's long. But the ending was brilliant. "In the modern-day vernacular, people often refer to a criminal case “being thrown out”. Obviously, this is
by rossdavidh 4y ago
I admit, it's long. But the ending was brilliant.
"In the modern-day vernacular, people often refer to a criminal case “being thrown out”. Obviously, this is little more than a figurative expression. Cases aren’t actually thrown out, in the literal or physical sense. Nevertheless, in the specific circumstances of this case, the Court is inclined to actually take the file and throw it out the window, which is the only way to adequately express my bewilderment with the fact that Mr. Epstein was subjected to an arrest and a fulsome criminal prosecution. Alas, the courtrooms of the Montreal courthouse do not have windows.
A mere verdict of acquittal will have to suffice."
- 908B64B197 4y agoWow that's colorful for court documents. I don't see how it could have turned out any other way. I'm just surprised he was actually arrested for something that's obviously covered by the first amendment. This reeks incompetence from the district attorney, trying to intimidate the man out of his rights like that.
- barbazoo 4y ago> I'm just surprised he was actually arrested for something that's obviously covered by the first amendment FYI, This is in Canada
- tonyarkles 4y agoTo be fair, despite being Canada, the judge agrees with you. At the start: > [5] To the complainants, the presence of young families outside it is a source of scorn and vivid resentment that ultimately spilled over into a criminal complaint against their neighbour. A school teacher. A caring father of two young daughters who committed no crime whatsoever. A man who has somehow been subjected to criminal charges for almost two years. > [6] This injustice ends today. And at the end: > [168] To be abundantly clear, it is not a crime to give someone the finger. Flipping the proverbial bird is a God-given, Charter enshrined right that belongs to every red-blooded Canadian. It may not be civil, it may not be polite, it may not be gentlemanly. > [169] Nevertheless, it does not trigger criminal liability. Offending someone is not a crime. It is an integral component of one’s freedom of expression. Citizens are to be thicker-skinned, especially when they behave in ways that are highly likely to trigger such profanity – like driving too fast on a street where innocent kids are playing. Being told to “fuck off” should not prompt a call to 9-1-1. > [170] On that topic, the evidence in the case at bar established that even after the accused’s arrest, therefore after the period covered by these charges, Michael Naccache called the police again to report that Mr. Epstein’s wife had given them the finger while walking on the street.[55] > [171] This needs to stop. The complainants are free to clutch their pearls in the face of such an insult. However, the police department and the 9-1-1 dispatching service have more important priorities to address.
- rhaway84773 4y agoWhat a great judge. They have crystallized all the issues with this bullshit in a really straightforward, yet persuasive and hilarious way.
- jwalton 4y agoYes, but there’s no first amendment in Canada. There’s the Charter of Rights and Freedoms at the federal level, and the Charte des droits et libertés de la personne at the provincial level.
- barry-cotter 4y agoThe Charter of Rights and Freedoms is meaningless given the notwithstanding clause. The government can violate the “rights” in the Charter as long as they’re willing to pass legislation to do so every five years. https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/notwithstanding-clause https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/notwithsta...
- tonyarkles 4y agoSection 1 doesn't even require the every-five-years bit, the violation just needs to be "demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society". Drinking and driving laws and traffic checkstops, for example, fall under this; there's no evidence that a crime as been committed or any probable cause at all at the moment you're being temporarily detained, and it's a crime to refuse to provide a road-side breath sample. Both of these have been assessed by the SCC and determined to, yes, be charter violations, and yes, perfectly ok because they're justified in a free and democratic society.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- tjohns 4y agoThe first amendment to the US constitution does not apply to Canada. Unless you believe US law is globally binding. (That said, Canada does have their own freedom of speech, under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.)
- version_five 4y agoCanada's charter of rights and freedoms isn't worth the paper it's printed on, especially in Quebec where the government actively pre-empts it (it has a clause that allows this, explaining why it's worthless) when it doesn't line up with their ideology.
- acover 4y agoWe grant you this right, not withstanding any desire we have to take it away.
- refurb 4y agoNo to mention the rather flippant suspension of Charter Rights during the Trucker Convoy.
- tonyarkles 4y agoOne of the most frustrating things about that whole situation with the Emergencies Act is the people simultaneously shouting "they have to use it, it's the only way for them to have the power to shut it down!" and "no one's rights are being violated!" I found the final report on the whole EA invocation to be reasonable. It found that the use of the EA was warranted, but also made it crystal clear that a) other people could look at the same facts and come to a different conclusion, and b) that the only reason it got to the point where it needed to be invoked was due to government incompetence at the municipal, provincial, and federal level.
- rhaway84773 4y ago
- sangnoir 4y ago> I'm just surprised he was actually arrested for something that's obviously covered by the first amendment >> [...] Canadian Judge rules
- Waterluvian 4y agoAmericans are harassed and arrested _ALL THE TIME_ for obvious 1A protected speech. This is why Courts of nations with true free speech are very eager to push back when police abuse their power. This prose is just that. An absolute scolding.
- talideon 4y agoHow can you tell me that you're American without actually saying it? Oh, here's a way!
- thfuran 4y agoJudicial opinions are often colorful.
- karaterobot 4y agoGod help you, you made an honest mistake, and now everybody gets to jump down your throat about it. Here's an upvote from one of the few people on HN who occasionally commits and error and can sympathize.
- Beldin 4y agoMoreover, GP's got a point: it cannot be good for your career as a prosecutor to have such a verdict on your record. Every second point is the judge tearing the case to shreds... your boss would wonder why you didn't catch that yourself.
- tharkun__ 4y agoLooking at this he made no mistake at all and is rightfully being voted into oblivion. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35102169 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35102169
- fmdragon 4y agoThe right to recognize Manitoba as a province?
- ChickenNugger 4y agoIf you enjoy this kind of thing I highly recommend the substack HN introduced me to by Yessine Meskhout: https://ymeskhout.substack.com/ https://ymeskhout.substack.com/ This is the one that got me hooked: https://ymeskhout.substack.com/p/eleven-magic-words-unlocked https://ymeskhout.substack.com/p/eleven-magic-words-unlocked And another hilarious read: https://ymeskhout.substack.com/p/i-am-here-because-of-blind-dumb-luck https://ymeskhout.substack.com/p/i-am-here-because-of-blind-...
- rpmisms 4y agoI love humorous legal writing. Some of the best writing and humor come together to make something great.
- vorticalbox 4y agoThank you for this.
- sheepscreek 4y agoThere’s more: > For reasons explained below, the Court is resoundingly acquitting the accused. Since I’m hesitant to draft an entire decision in bold and caps-lock characters, I offer the following observations instead.
- walrus01 4y agoIf you like well written Canadian legal decisions, check out the decision in Meads. v. Meads on sovereign citizens.
- sheepscreek 4y agoThanks for the reference. I am Canadian and only just discovering this! If anyone else wants to read Meads vs. Meads: https://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abqb/doc/2012/2012abqb571/2012abqb571.html https://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abqb/doc/2012/2012abqb571/2012a...
- matbilodeau 4y agoThanks for the amazing read.
- iosystem 4y agoMontreal police are some of the worst police in Canada and the Montreal prosecutors always take any arrests by police before a Judge even if there are glaring mistakes at play. I know of a cancer patient that wanted medical assistance in dying. The hospital didn't want to provide it to her and lied to the police about her threatening to take a life of a doctor. She in fact was explaining to the doctor she would be able to take someone else's life if the roles were reversed and if someone needed to die from medical assistance in dying; which is legal here in Canada but doctors are hesitant to treat young adults in her case with the same respect as the older generations.
- Natsu 4y agoIn this case, they apparently ignored several prior complaints until the guy videotaped this guy giving the man (who tried to run over his kids on several occasions) the finger and making a gesture (wrongly) described as "throat slashing." Of course, this nutjob is absolutely paranoid and was constantly driving in a reckless manner around small children who wanted to play in their neighborhood, some of whom he videotaped running away from his car which he did not attempt to slow down according to his own videos. So once the prosecution heard all this, they actually told the judge to throw out the case. I grant he shouldn't have even been there to begin with based on what we saw, but sometimes it's hard to tell that until after the evidence is seen.
- ethbr0 4y ago> this nutjob is absolutely paranoid If COVID's social experiment (especially masks, on both sides, as some bizarre litmus for "Are you crazy or sane?") taught us anything, it's that we should remember to measure ourselves by our communities. If 9/10 of my neighbors think I'm a paranoid asshole, then I'm probably a paranoid asshole. I should then spend some time reflecting on why they think that, rather than rationalizing and conspiring with my immediate family about how the rest of the world is out to get us by tagging the street with chalk drawings.
- chef_boyarz 4y agoThe prosecutor didn’t ask for the case to be thrown out. The prosecutor decided not to cross examine Mr Epstein. She then asked the judge for an acquittal. She knew that the prosecution had lost after Mr Epstein testified and the “victim” lied under oath. There was no point cross examining and wasting more of the taxpayers money and courts time. Although the trial should never have taken place at all
- eqvinox 4y agobtw: Don't stop at the footnotes. They're pretty amazing too. (², ¹⁵, ⁴³, ⁴⁹)