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let's see all the FAANG people rise up in HN and defend their bullshit jobs. I'm a FAANG-er with a (partially) bullshit job too and I've been tired of all thes

let's see all the FAANG people rise up in HN and defend their bullshit jobs. I'm a FAANG-er with a (partially) bullshit job too and I've been tired of all these engineers with fake jobs living of the teat of their money-printing corp and pretending that their little over-engineering is so essential.

manuelmoreale 4y ago
Allow me this question: what % of the tech world do you think it truly is essential? I’m asking in the broader sense. Essential to modern society not essential within the scope of a company.
- sokoloff 4y ago
  Essential to society? 1/4 to 1/3; maybe less.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- yamtaddle 4y ago
  Good lord. Almost none of it, if by "tech" you mean "software". Most of it's pushing consumerism via invasive advertising, spreading lies on purpose, or chasing marginal improvements in entertainment. I also suspect the majority of B2B activity is neutral or negative in actual delivered value over whatever it's replacing. [EDIT] I think this is true even for extremely generous values of "essential", in fact. I think the vast majority of software effort delivers marginal gains at best, with a net effect that is overall harmful in the median case, which harm is masked by the occasional huge improvement it delivers.
  - manuelmoreale 4y ago
    Well, software is not just the web. Software that runs medical equipment is valuable and essential for example. And I think the same is true for all sorts of digital infrastructure. I’m thinking about software to run the power grid or running street lights or controlling a dam. There’s countless examples of useful to society pieces of software. But there are also countless other that are example of the opposite.
    - yamtaddle 4y ago
      Yes, that's why it's only almost none. Some single-digit percentage of programming effort probably is important.
- Animats 4y ago
  Consider Craigslist. Under 100 people, yet it replaced the entire US newspaper classified ad industry. It's possible to do most of the useful stuff Facebook and Twitter do with very small operations.
- nequo 4y ago
  One might argue that the role of tech is to help society fulfill the higher rungs of the Maslow hierarchy rather than the lower ones. In that case, whether it is essential is the wrong question. But then most of tech arguably doesn't serve the higher rungs very well, or is outright counterproductive with what evidence we have about Instagram[1] and Facebook's[2] effects on mental health, and so on. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instagram#Scientific_studies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instagram#Scientific_studies [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook#Mental_and_emotional_health https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook#Mental_and_emotional_...
  - manuelmoreale 4y ago
    Second part of your answer is the reason why I was posing the question. I’m not of the idea that all tech is unnecessary. We need information systems for things like banking, healthcare, government and so on. But as you pointed out there are also tech products that are definitely not essential or even counter productive to society that employ a lot of people.
- dhosek 4y ago
  I remember as an undergrad realizing that the software that I wrote, that I enjoyed writing, was largely about making computers easier to use, and didn’t provide any value outside the computer. I think I’m mostly ok with that 30-some-odd years later, but when I’m looking for a new job, there’s a part of me that always hopes for something that’s at least a little socially redeemable.
  - manuelmoreale 4y ago
    I struggle with that feeling constantly and I can definitely relate. It can be challenging because plenty of times what we do doesn’t really feel that meaningful when we look at the bigger picture.
- crispyambulance 4y ago
  I think that if you try to answer the question "what % of the tech world is truly essential", you ALSO have to consider that everyone is on a career path. People don't end where they start. Sometimes you get lucky and have an opportunity to do something really worthwhile. The thing is, when that happens, it's often the result of series of career "stepping stones" which are often not very worthwhile when looked at in isolation. Many of the folks who were terminated from Google, I think, will use the connections and experiences gained at Google to do really essential work. Maybe not this week, maybe in years or decades. It's not wasted, if the individual makes the best of it.
srajabi 4y ago
Most jobs are bullshit jobs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit_Jobs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit_Jobs the phenomenon is not unique to tech. How many finance workers on wall street do you think provide direct value to society?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- geodel 4y ago
  So that's the best defense tech bullshittery that we are just like finance ?
  - srajabi 4y ago
    It's not a defense. If you want to fix the fact that a lot of tech jobs are bullshit, FAANG or otherwise. You have to fix that phenomenon in all work sectors, because it's not a uniquely big tech created problem.

manuelmoreale 4y ago

Allow me this question: what % of the tech world do you think it truly is essential? I’m asking in the broader sense. Essential to modern society not essential within the scope of a company.

sokoloff 4y ago
Essential to society? 1/4 to 1/3; maybe less.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
yamtaddle 4y ago
Good lord. Almost none of it, if by "tech" you mean "software". Most of it's pushing consumerism via invasive advertising, spreading lies on purpose, or chasing marginal improvements in entertainment. I also suspect the majority of B2B activity is neutral or negative in actual delivered value over whatever it's replacing. [EDIT] I think this is true even for extremely generous values of "essential", in fact. I think the vast majority of software effort delivers marginal gains at best, with a net effect that is overall harmful in the median case, which harm is masked by the occasional huge improvement it delivers.
- manuelmoreale 4y ago
  Well, software is not just the web. Software that runs medical equipment is valuable and essential for example. And I think the same is true for all sorts of digital infrastructure. I’m thinking about software to run the power grid or running street lights or controlling a dam. There’s countless examples of useful to society pieces of software. But there are also countless other that are example of the opposite.
  - yamtaddle 4y ago
    Yes, that's why it's only almost none. Some single-digit percentage of programming effort probably is important.
Animats 4y ago
Consider Craigslist. Under 100 people, yet it replaced the entire US newspaper classified ad industry. It's possible to do most of the useful stuff Facebook and Twitter do with very small operations.
nequo 4y ago
One might argue that the role of tech is to help society fulfill the higher rungs of the Maslow hierarchy rather than the lower ones. In that case, whether it is essential is the wrong question. But then most of tech arguably doesn't serve the higher rungs very well, or is outright counterproductive with what evidence we have about Instagram[1] and Facebook's[2] effects on mental health, and so on. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instagram#Scientific_studies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instagram#Scientific_studies [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook#Mental_and_emotional_health https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook#Mental_and_emotional_...
- manuelmoreale 4y ago
  Second part of your answer is the reason why I was posing the question. I’m not of the idea that all tech is unnecessary. We need information systems for things like banking, healthcare, government and so on. But as you pointed out there are also tech products that are definitely not essential or even counter productive to society that employ a lot of people.
dhosek 4y ago
I remember as an undergrad realizing that the software that I wrote, that I enjoyed writing, was largely about making computers easier to use, and didn’t provide any value outside the computer. I think I’m mostly ok with that 30-some-odd years later, but when I’m looking for a new job, there’s a part of me that always hopes for something that’s at least a little socially redeemable.
- manuelmoreale 4y ago
  I struggle with that feeling constantly and I can definitely relate. It can be challenging because plenty of times what we do doesn’t really feel that meaningful when we look at the bigger picture.
crispyambulance 4y ago
I think that if you try to answer the question "what % of the tech world is truly essential", you ALSO have to consider that everyone is on a career path. People don't end where they start. Sometimes you get lucky and have an opportunity to do something really worthwhile. The thing is, when that happens, it's often the result of series of career "stepping stones" which are often not very worthwhile when looked at in isolation. Many of the folks who were terminated from Google, I think, will use the connections and experiences gained at Google to do really essential work. Maybe not this week, maybe in years or decades. It's not wasted, if the individual makes the best of it.

srajabi 4y ago

Most jobs are bullshit jobs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit_Jobs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit_Jobs the phenomenon is not unique to tech. How many finance workers on wall street do you think provide direct value to society?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
geodel 4y ago
So that's the best defense tech bullshittery that we are just like finance ?
- srajabi 4y ago
  It's not a defense. If you want to fix the fact that a lot of tech jobs are bullshit, FAANG or otherwise. You have to fix that phenomenon in all work sectors, because it's not a uniquely big tech created problem.