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Assuming, for the moment, that smart phones and social media are bad for these kids, what do we do? We can't raise our kids without exposure to digital technolo

Assuming, for the moment, that smart phones and social media are bad for these kids, what do we do? We can't raise our kids without exposure to digital technology, but I'm not sure how to keep it at arms length. I have an almost 5yo who obviously (I hope this is obvious and commonplace) doesn't have their own phone or tablet and has never used social media. But in a few years, they'll have peers that do use these things. Do I not buy them a phone? Do I just get them a cellular-connected watch so that they can call me if needed? Right now, my plan is to build them some kind of simple computer (e.g., Raspberry Pi 400) in a few years (i.e., once they can read and write) that probably doesn't have Internet access (at least at first), but allows use of Scratch Desktop and/or BASIC to learn programming, as well as "harmless" games (e.g., chess, etc.). I might also introduce off-line game systems like SNES and Genesis Classic. What are people with literate young kids doing to introduce their kids to digital technology in a sane, non/less-addictive way?

13years 4y ago
I don't know how we will manage it, but it is about to get exponentially worse. With the introduction of AI, kids are going to bond to a fake reality. The manipulative effect is going to be orders of magnitude greater than social media.
glomgril 4y ago
I have a very similar plan involving a Raspberry Pi, I agree that it's a great middle ground. IMO screentime that only involves video calls with family is perfectly fine, especially if it is a group activity. In general (timeboxed) social activities that involve multiple people watching/interacting with a single screen don't seem as potentially consuming (e.g. a Super Bowl party). That's our arms-length strategy at this point. Seems to have worked quite well so far w.r.t. not getting obsessed with electronics. We'll see what happens when peers start getting phones/tablets though...
jedberg 4y ago
FWIW we got my 8 year old a smart watch, and it's been great. We can text her and she can text us (and her older cousin) and we can call her and track her. She can't use social media or anything else, and I put one game on there for her (pong). Both she and her brother have access to our old phones and tablets with a curated list of games that at least vaguely teach you something. They get limited time on the devices. Rule number one is no screens when the sun is up, except on weekends. Also sometimes I let them play my S/NES emulators, which obviously have no internet access. I suspect she'll ask for a phone when she gets to middle school. We'll cross that bridge when we get to it.
tflinton 4y ago
I also have a 5-year old, we've given him an iPad that doesn't allow software to be installed via the app store; doesn't allow any websites to be visited and has a screentime set to an hour a day. If he wants something on the iPad we have to unlock the parent settings and install the specific app they want on it. The iPad has iMessage/iPhoto/Music and everything else turned off. Most of the time he plays angry birds for a an hour or plays the piano on it or some other innocent activity. As far as giving him a smartphone; both my wife and I have agreed not until he's 16 and no social media until he's 18. We may give him a kids phone when he's older that only allows phone calls to a locked set of people and has no apps on it. I'm not too concerned about what his peers have or do; him feeling left out is a small price to pay for not having to endure the problems associated with social media.
- wobbly_bush 4y ago
  Question - what are your thoughts on giving an old laptop instead of iPad? Probably 5-year olds are too young for laptops, but in general there could be more a child could do for safe entertainment on a laptop than iPad/smartphone (theoretically atleast - with equivalent restrictions on accessing social media etc.).
  - tflinton 4y ago
    Nothing wrong with it I suppose, it's definitely more difficult for them to use but doable. I haven't really had that many issues with locking down an iPad. The settings for it are pretty buried under "Screen Time" but it does allow you to turn off nearly any built-in app on the iPad, restrict content by specific ratings, limit the domains safari is allowed to go to and restrict app installation/upgrades.
4gotunameagain 4y ago
most of us here grew up without smartphones, and we are doing pretty well technologically. it is the constant access to it that it is the problem imo, not technology in general. we do not allow kids to gamble, smoke, drink coffee, alcohol or other drugs since their prefrontal cortex is developing, why do we allow them a constantly available dopamine hit similar to, if not worse than the others ? just ban phones and social media (and any other constantly available, internet connected distracting device) for kids under 20 or something. educate society about the perils of phone usage. let them use desktops and all the rest, I think it should be fine
kranke155 4y ago
We obviously need kid friendly phones that can make calls and use useful apps and nothing Else.
lll-o-lll 4y ago
Apple and Nintendo universe is your friend (as it allows for very fine grained parental permissions). Basic rules in our house: - Time limits on all games/apps (Apple/Nintendo settings) - No install of apps without parental consent (needs password) - No digital devices in bedrooms Initial “phone” will be an Apple Watch which allows calls/gps-apps but can be locked down for other apps 9-3 (calls only) Nintendo is great because you can have games that avoid the mobile “dopamine hook” feedback loop. Digital device ban from bedroom encourages accountability (public space usage) + prevents polluting the bedroom from the perspective of sleep hygiene/homework. Device limits mean digital usage is limited, and the “device” is what stopped the kid, not the parent (somehow they seem much more accepting of this than a parent yelling “put the device away!”) My eldest is old enough to be using a computer which is again in the shared living space, and has less restrictions by its nature. I track all the usage, and we have occasional chats about what he’s been looking at and whether it’s “healthy” for mind and spirit. Regular chats about the harms of too much digital, addiction, and the potential harms of social media. They will get phones as teenagers, and they will be locked down. We aren’t there yet, but the hope is that some restrictions + everything we’ve tried to teach them will minimise the harm. Time will tell.

13years 4y ago

I don't know how we will manage it, but it is about to get exponentially worse. With the introduction of AI, kids are going to bond to a fake reality. The manipulative effect is going to be orders of magnitude greater than social media.

glomgril 4y ago

I have a very similar plan involving a Raspberry Pi, I agree that it's a great middle ground. IMO screentime that only involves video calls with family is perfectly fine, especially if it is a group activity. In general (timeboxed) social activities that involve multiple people watching/interacting with a single screen don't seem as potentially consuming (e.g. a Super Bowl party). That's our arms-length strategy at this point. Seems to have worked quite well so far w.r.t. not getting obsessed with electronics. We'll see what happens when peers start getting phones/tablets though...

jedberg 4y ago

FWIW we got my 8 year old a smart watch, and it's been great. We can text her and she can text us (and her older cousin) and we can call her and track her. She can't use social media or anything else, and I put one game on there for her (pong). Both she and her brother have access to our old phones and tablets with a curated list of games that at least vaguely teach you something. They get limited time on the devices. Rule number one is no screens when the sun is up, except on weekends. Also sometimes I let them play my S/NES emulators, which obviously have no internet access. I suspect she'll ask for a phone when she gets to middle school. We'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

tflinton 4y ago

I also have a 5-year old, we've given him an iPad that doesn't allow software to be installed via the app store; doesn't allow any websites to be visited and has a screentime set to an hour a day. If he wants something on the iPad we have to unlock the parent settings and install the specific app they want on it. The iPad has iMessage/iPhoto/Music and everything else turned off. Most of the time he plays angry birds for a an hour or plays the piano on it or some other innocent activity. As far as giving him a smartphone; both my wife and I have agreed not until he's 16 and no social media until he's 18. We may give him a kids phone when he's older that only allows phone calls to a locked set of people and has no apps on it. I'm not too concerned about what his peers have or do; him feeling left out is a small price to pay for not having to endure the problems associated with social media.

wobbly_bush 4y ago
Question - what are your thoughts on giving an old laptop instead of iPad? Probably 5-year olds are too young for laptops, but in general there could be more a child could do for safe entertainment on a laptop than iPad/smartphone (theoretically atleast - with equivalent restrictions on accessing social media etc.).
- tflinton 4y ago
  Nothing wrong with it I suppose, it's definitely more difficult for them to use but doable. I haven't really had that many issues with locking down an iPad. The settings for it are pretty buried under "Screen Time" but it does allow you to turn off nearly any built-in app on the iPad, restrict content by specific ratings, limit the domains safari is allowed to go to and restrict app installation/upgrades.

4gotunameagain 4y ago

most of us here grew up without smartphones, and we are doing pretty well technologically. it is the constant access to it that it is the problem imo, not technology in general. we do not allow kids to gamble, smoke, drink coffee, alcohol or other drugs since their prefrontal cortex is developing, why do we allow them a constantly available dopamine hit similar to, if not worse than the others ? just ban phones and social media (and any other constantly available, internet connected distracting device) for kids under 20 or something. educate society about the perils of phone usage. let them use desktops and all the rest, I think it should be fine

kranke155 4y ago

We obviously need kid friendly phones that can make calls and use useful apps and nothing Else.

lll-o-lll 4y ago

Apple and Nintendo universe is your friend (as it allows for very fine grained parental permissions). Basic rules in our house: - Time limits on all games/apps (Apple/Nintendo settings) - No install of apps without parental consent (needs password) - No digital devices in bedrooms Initial “phone” will be an Apple Watch which allows calls/gps-apps but can be locked down for other apps 9-3 (calls only) Nintendo is great because you can have games that avoid the mobile “dopamine hook” feedback loop. Digital device ban from bedroom encourages accountability (public space usage) + prevents polluting the bedroom from the perspective of sleep hygiene/homework. Device limits mean digital usage is limited, and the “device” is what stopped the kid, not the parent (somehow they seem much more accepting of this than a parent yelling “put the device away!”) My eldest is old enough to be using a computer which is again in the shared living space, and has less restrictions by its nature. I track all the usage, and we have occasional chats about what he’s been looking at and whether it’s “healthy” for mind and spirit. Regular chats about the harms of too much digital, addiction, and the potential harms of social media. They will get phones as teenagers, and they will be locked down. We aren’t there yet, but the hope is that some restrictions + everything we’ve tried to teach them will minimise the harm. Time will tell.