5 ms·

This is ridiculous. HTML rendering is robust enough to work without CSS. A missing font should just be defaulted to serif or sans and that's it.

lozenge 4y ago
It wasn't missing, it was slow. Are you going to re kern and re layout the page when the font arrives? If you want to avoid that then you have to wait.
- petefromnorth 4y ago
  Yes, better a fallback than to completely block.
- jen20 4y ago
  This kind of thing is why I block all web fonts. I don't want to wait, and I don't want the page to reflow while I'm reading it. The best way to do that is to use the system fonts (which also happen to be nice, on a Mac).
  - manuelmoreale 4y ago
    This is why—if I can—I design my sites using OS fonts that are honestly quite good.
- Pet_Ant 4y ago
  > Are you going to re kern and re layout the page when the font arrives? It makes me angry that this is even a sentence. Call me an old fart but I really felt that the web lost the thread when this became a concern. Websites shouldn't be magazines. Typography and layouts are nice to have, but the first priority should be information and content. But then the marketing people got involved and it had to become part of the "brand experience". Just give me a HTML table with your menu items, description, and prices. Or even better just the data in an XML file and I can read it without JavaScript and animations and awkward navigation patterns. <returns to defending his front lawn>
  - makeitdouble 4y ago
    > Websites shouldn't be magazines. Why though? We’re in 2023 and magazines got out of print to move to the web. Telling literal magazines “no, you shouldn’t exist here” is pretty harsh. But I’ll grant you the mental image is powerful. I imagine you going to a restaurant and shouting “what’s with the decorum ? And that background music ? and all this space between tables ? this should be a warehouse with everyone sitting on the floor with the lasagna served in tupperwares ”
    - Pet_Ant 4y ago
      I'm happy to chose to have an experience, frankly I enjoy fine dining. But I refuse to go if I can't get access to the prices beforehand. There is a difference between an authentic experience (say the opera) and using it as a manipulative tactic. Do not get between me and the information. If I call an ask how much the lobster bisque is, don't tell me to hold while they get ahold of someone who can say it with a French accent. This is about empowering the consumer. And even in a traditional magazine the design should never take precedence over the content. (...waiting for the Marshall McLuhan apologist to show up). I mean there is a reason that CSS is not necessary to render HTML or why Progressive Enhancement was a real movement. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_enhancement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_enhancement
      - FireInsight 4y ago
        Great analogy with the calling a restaurant! Lets say instead of telling you to hold while they get a person with a french accent on the phone, they only pay people with french accents to answer the phone. There are a little less people with french accents working at the restaurant, but still enough to get the phone answered with only a slight delay compared to a more traditional restaurant phone line. There's also a special 'no fuss' mode on your phone, where you can just chat with the phones default voice assistant. There's no waiting time, and the voice assistant fetches the correct data from the restaurants website and presents it conversationally. Of course, if all of the people with french accents called in sick for work, the phone might end up unanswered. The problem should be able to be fixed, though, by having some sort of fallback mechanism to people with italian accents.
- randomdata 4y ago
  No, you are going to give it a short window of time to deliver and if that elapses give up and render with what you have. You are going to keep trying to source the material in the background and if it eventually arrives give the user some non-intrusive feedback that they can choose to reload the page if they want to see it in its full form.

lozenge 4y ago

It wasn't missing, it was slow. Are you going to re kern and re layout the page when the font arrives? If you want to avoid that then you have to wait.

petefromnorth 4y ago
Yes, better a fallback than to completely block.
jen20 4y ago
This kind of thing is why I block all web fonts. I don't want to wait, and I don't want the page to reflow while I'm reading it. The best way to do that is to use the system fonts (which also happen to be nice, on a Mac).
- manuelmoreale 4y ago
  This is why—if I can—I design my sites using OS fonts that are honestly quite good.
Pet_Ant 4y ago
> Are you going to re kern and re layout the page when the font arrives? It makes me angry that this is even a sentence. Call me an old fart but I really felt that the web lost the thread when this became a concern. Websites shouldn't be magazines. Typography and layouts are nice to have, but the first priority should be information and content. But then the marketing people got involved and it had to become part of the "brand experience". Just give me a HTML table with your menu items, description, and prices. Or even better just the data in an XML file and I can read it without JavaScript and animations and awkward navigation patterns. <returns to defending his front lawn>
- makeitdouble 4y ago
  > Websites shouldn't be magazines. Why though? We’re in 2023 and magazines got out of print to move to the web. Telling literal magazines “no, you shouldn’t exist here” is pretty harsh. But I’ll grant you the mental image is powerful. I imagine you going to a restaurant and shouting “what’s with the decorum ? And that background music ? and all this space between tables ? this should be a warehouse with everyone sitting on the floor with the lasagna served in tupperwares ”
  - Pet_Ant 4y ago
    I'm happy to chose to have an experience, frankly I enjoy fine dining. But I refuse to go if I can't get access to the prices beforehand. There is a difference between an authentic experience (say the opera) and using it as a manipulative tactic. Do not get between me and the information. If I call an ask how much the lobster bisque is, don't tell me to hold while they get ahold of someone who can say it with a French accent. This is about empowering the consumer. And even in a traditional magazine the design should never take precedence over the content. (...waiting for the Marshall McLuhan apologist to show up). I mean there is a reason that CSS is not necessary to render HTML or why Progressive Enhancement was a real movement. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_enhancement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_enhancement
    - FireInsight 4y ago
      Great analogy with the calling a restaurant! Lets say instead of telling you to hold while they get a person with a french accent on the phone, they only pay people with french accents to answer the phone. There are a little less people with french accents working at the restaurant, but still enough to get the phone answered with only a slight delay compared to a more traditional restaurant phone line. There's also a special 'no fuss' mode on your phone, where you can just chat with the phones default voice assistant. There's no waiting time, and the voice assistant fetches the correct data from the restaurants website and presents it conversationally. Of course, if all of the people with french accents called in sick for work, the phone might end up unanswered. The problem should be able to be fixed, though, by having some sort of fallback mechanism to people with italian accents.
randomdata 4y ago
No, you are going to give it a short window of time to deliver and if that elapses give up and render with what you have. You are going to keep trying to source the material in the background and if it eventually arrives give the user some non-intrusive feedback that they can choose to reload the page if they want to see it in its full form.