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People the world over have determined they're fine with this kind of surveillance as long as it's the "other side's" protesters that are being surveilled. We sa

People the world over have determined they're fine with this kind of surveillance as long as it's the "other side's" protesters that are being surveilled. We saw it here in Canada during the Trucker's protest. The ship has sailed.

A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
I am not sure. US just had a bigger protest over 'cop city' and you can find all sorts of interpretations of the event from 'they righteous' to 'they terrorists'. Trucker's protest was similarly divided in US ( I don't know how it was portrayed/received in Canada. I think what I am saying is wrong with regards to: 'People the world over have determined they're fine ' If anything, I am actually seeing regular people paying attention to sanctions, BSA, BIS and similar. Naturally, it is possible that is because it started to affect more regular people, but yeah.. I am not certain you are right.
- khyryk 4y ago
  Maybe a better way of putting it is that the public's amount of caring about it happens to be below the threshold for doing something.
- causi 4y ago
  Trucker's protest was similarly divided in US That's exactly what he's saying. It wasn't divided between people who believe in the rights of protestors and people who didn't; it was divided between pro and anti-vaxxers, which is largely to say between the political Left and Right. I don't know if there ever was a political core that cared more about their principles of governance (good or bad) than their "side" but it's gone now. The people who dismissed the threat of BLM protests/riots being COVID super-spreader events in 2020 wanted truckers lynched for clogging up a city and honking their horns. On the other side, the same people cheering on an entire city in gridlock and effectively tortured by constant horn noise wanted police to gun down entire crowds for looting a Walmart. Both of them cloaked their defenses with cries of "free speech!" and both called for repression in the name of order and safety. Those of us who apply the same principles to people we love and hate, speech we cheer and find nauseating, are an endangered species.
  - A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
    Thank you. That makes more sense. I think I did not parse parent's post right. I personally want to believe I apply the principles evenly, but uncharitable interpretation can do a lot to point out even slightest inconsistency derived from competing priorities ( and everyone has different ranking of those ).
  - verall 4y ago
    Do you feel like it is applying the same principles to people you both love and hate to characterize BLM protests as riots and truckers protests as "honking their horns"?
    - 4dayworkweek4u 4y ago
      Look up the G.F protests death count.
    - vuln 4y ago
      Perhaps it was the coverage I saw but I didn't see any looting, property destruction, or any fights with law enforcement with the truckers protest. That's not to say it didn't happen. Could be the difference between the US and Canada media. The truckers also had bouncy houses, food tents and trucks, DJs and dancing in the street. Seems like a good time compared to CHOP and other autonomous zones where people were murdered.
      - verall 4y ago
        It's trivial to find examples of food tents, clashing with police, and DJs in both groups, so it's probably a difference in the media you are watching, and these aren't very good examples. I think it may make more sense to try to make a judgement as to the reason for the protests. My best understanding of the truckers protest they were protesting Canada requiring truckers who crossed the US-Canada border to be vaccinated, while the BLM protesters were protesting US police negligence, uses of force, and perceived lack of oversight. Maybe the split is more about those who judge the reasons for protesting vs the methods of protesting rather than left vs right. In any case I don't think counting bouncy houses is productive.
- sandworm101 4y ago
  >> I don't know how it was portrayed/received in Canada. 1/3 of the country, the anti-Trudeau bit, could see no wrong in the trucker protests. The rest of the country saw a bunch of entitled jerks being jerks. They weren't even real truckers, more like business owners who owned trucks. Rank-and-file truckers don't have the time nor resources to go on multi-week vacations across the country. The large number of immigrants who drive trucks in Canada were also not represented. The icing on the cake was the hot tub. American protesters at January 6th brought a gallows. The Ottawa "truckers" brought a hot tub. Every weekend in my area a few huge pickups get together to drive around with their "F*ck Trudeau" flags, the remnants of the trucker protest movement. Everyone else just looks at them wondering where they get enough money to waste gas driving huge trucks around in circles on a Saturday.
  - LawTalkingGuy 4y ago
    > The large number of immigrants who drive trucks in Canada were also not represented. There are famous videos of Sikh truck drivers on other drivers shoulders, as the crowd dances to Indian music - near the bouncy castle. But would it be illegitimate if it appealed to one demographic more than another? > Rank-and-file truckers don't have the time nor resources to go on multi-week vacations across the country. They were out of a job so they had time. > The icing on the cake was the hot tub. American protesters at January 6th brought a gallows. The Ottawa "truckers" brought a hot tub. How is this good or bad? Lots of people enjoy hot-tubbing in cold weather. > 1/3 of the country, the anti-Trudeau bit, could see no wrong in the trucker protests. No chance any of their supporters are there because they agree with the issues? You feel that everyone who supported them was doing so because they disliked the PM? Do you also feel that everyone who spoke out against them was a supporter of the PM? What opinions are legitimate opinions and which ones do people only have to support their party?
sandworm101 4y ago
The canada trucker protests are not a great pro-privacy example. Given the weapons that were found at the border protest, and the subsequent prosecutions for those possessing them (conspiracy to murder cops), any data requests seem to have served a legitimate purpose. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/coutts-protest-charges-laid-court-appearance-bail-1.6352482 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/coutts-protest-charge...
- olalonde 4y ago
  I think parent was referring to the large trucker protest in Ottawa where several privacy violations occurred (e.g. freezing bank accounts) despite the protests being mostly peaceful.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - eldaisfish 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - Mountain_Skies 4y ago
      Would you describe the BLM protests as mostly peaceful?
      - tomkarho 4y ago
        Fiery but mostly peaceful. /s
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - barbazoo 4y ago
    > despite the protests being mostly peaceful https://pressprogress.ca/it-was-violent-peoples-commission-report-shines-light-on-violence-harassment-and-hate-crimes-during-freedom-convoy/ https://pressprogress.ca/it-was-violent-peoples-commission-r...
hommelix 4y ago
I remember this text [1] when I read your comment. Thank you [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...
AussieWog93 4y ago
Honestly, I think a lot of people are pretty sick of protests in general, regardless of their political affiliation (probably not on HN, since we're extremely online and libertarian, but ask your grandma and see what she says). Whether it's the left doing it or the right, it seems that many protests have nothing to do with the "movement" at all and are just thinly veiled excuses to act like an ape and smear shit on the wall.
- wolverine876 4y ago
  Do you have any objective information to support that? Certainly some reactionary groups want to stop protests, which are a threat to authoritarian power. The reason is protests are often very effective; they are a threat to their power. Look at Israel now, for example. Look at the US Constitution, which went out of its way to protect protests.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- swayvil 4y ago
  Voting (on social media, like here) is like protesting. They're both public expressions of emotion. Online anonymity is also like being-part-of-a-crowd anonymity. Frame either in whatever rational interpretation you like. But they both amount to howls of embrace/reject.
skylanh 4y ago
Canada's "The Trucker's Protest" is more commonly referred to as a hostile occupation and blockade. There is a strong white-washing attempt by certain unsavory elements to recast it as a benign protest movement.
- 4dayworkweek4u 4y ago
  Do you believe in "my body my choice"?
- arunharidas 4y ago
  Same for most of the protests out there. You should not support surveillance even if you're against cause of protest. The government will come for you sooner or later.

A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago

I am not sure. US just had a bigger protest over 'cop city' and you can find all sorts of interpretations of the event from 'they righteous' to 'they terrorists'. Trucker's protest was similarly divided in US ( I don't know how it was portrayed/received in Canada. I think what I am saying is wrong with regards to: 'People the world over have determined they're fine ' If anything, I am actually seeing regular people paying attention to sanctions, BSA, BIS and similar. Naturally, it is possible that is because it started to affect more regular people, but yeah.. I am not certain you are right.

khyryk 4y ago
Maybe a better way of putting it is that the public's amount of caring about it happens to be below the threshold for doing something.
causi 4y ago
Trucker's protest was similarly divided in US That's exactly what he's saying. It wasn't divided between people who believe in the rights of protestors and people who didn't; it was divided between pro and anti-vaxxers, which is largely to say between the political Left and Right. I don't know if there ever was a political core that cared more about their principles of governance (good or bad) than their "side" but it's gone now. The people who dismissed the threat of BLM protests/riots being COVID super-spreader events in 2020 wanted truckers lynched for clogging up a city and honking their horns. On the other side, the same people cheering on an entire city in gridlock and effectively tortured by constant horn noise wanted police to gun down entire crowds for looting a Walmart. Both of them cloaked their defenses with cries of "free speech!" and both called for repression in the name of order and safety. Those of us who apply the same principles to people we love and hate, speech we cheer and find nauseating, are an endangered species.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
  Thank you. That makes more sense. I think I did not parse parent's post right. I personally want to believe I apply the principles evenly, but uncharitable interpretation can do a lot to point out even slightest inconsistency derived from competing priorities ( and everyone has different ranking of those ).
- verall 4y ago
  Do you feel like it is applying the same principles to people you both love and hate to characterize BLM protests as riots and truckers protests as "honking their horns"?
  - 4dayworkweek4u 4y ago
    Look up the G.F protests death count.
  - vuln 4y ago
    Perhaps it was the coverage I saw but I didn't see any looting, property destruction, or any fights with law enforcement with the truckers protest. That's not to say it didn't happen. Could be the difference between the US and Canada media. The truckers also had bouncy houses, food tents and trucks, DJs and dancing in the street. Seems like a good time compared to CHOP and other autonomous zones where people were murdered.
    - verall 4y ago
      It's trivial to find examples of food tents, clashing with police, and DJs in both groups, so it's probably a difference in the media you are watching, and these aren't very good examples. I think it may make more sense to try to make a judgement as to the reason for the protests. My best understanding of the truckers protest they were protesting Canada requiring truckers who crossed the US-Canada border to be vaccinated, while the BLM protesters were protesting US police negligence, uses of force, and perceived lack of oversight. Maybe the split is more about those who judge the reasons for protesting vs the methods of protesting rather than left vs right. In any case I don't think counting bouncy houses is productive.
sandworm101 4y ago
>> I don't know how it was portrayed/received in Canada. 1/3 of the country, the anti-Trudeau bit, could see no wrong in the trucker protests. The rest of the country saw a bunch of entitled jerks being jerks. They weren't even real truckers, more like business owners who owned trucks. Rank-and-file truckers don't have the time nor resources to go on multi-week vacations across the country. The large number of immigrants who drive trucks in Canada were also not represented. The icing on the cake was the hot tub. American protesters at January 6th brought a gallows. The Ottawa "truckers" brought a hot tub. Every weekend in my area a few huge pickups get together to drive around with their "F*ck Trudeau" flags, the remnants of the trucker protest movement. Everyone else just looks at them wondering where they get enough money to waste gas driving huge trucks around in circles on a Saturday.
- LawTalkingGuy 4y ago
  > The large number of immigrants who drive trucks in Canada were also not represented. There are famous videos of Sikh truck drivers on other drivers shoulders, as the crowd dances to Indian music - near the bouncy castle. But would it be illegitimate if it appealed to one demographic more than another? > Rank-and-file truckers don't have the time nor resources to go on multi-week vacations across the country. They were out of a job so they had time. > The icing on the cake was the hot tub. American protesters at January 6th brought a gallows. The Ottawa "truckers" brought a hot tub. How is this good or bad? Lots of people enjoy hot-tubbing in cold weather. > 1/3 of the country, the anti-Trudeau bit, could see no wrong in the trucker protests. No chance any of their supporters are there because they agree with the issues? You feel that everyone who supported them was doing so because they disliked the PM? Do you also feel that everyone who spoke out against them was a supporter of the PM? What opinions are legitimate opinions and which ones do people only have to support their party?

sandworm101 4y ago

The canada trucker protests are not a great pro-privacy example. Given the weapons that were found at the border protest, and the subsequent prosecutions for those possessing them (conspiracy to murder cops), any data requests seem to have served a legitimate purpose. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/coutts-protest-charges-laid-court-appearance-bail-1.6352482 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/coutts-protest-charge...

olalonde 4y ago
I think parent was referring to the large trucker protest in Ottawa where several privacy violations occurred (e.g. freezing bank accounts) despite the protests being mostly peaceful.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- eldaisfish 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - Mountain_Skies 4y ago
    Would you describe the BLM protests as mostly peaceful?
    - tomkarho 4y ago
      Fiery but mostly peaceful. /s
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- barbazoo 4y ago
  > despite the protests being mostly peaceful https://pressprogress.ca/it-was-violent-peoples-commission-report-shines-light-on-violence-harassment-and-hate-crimes-during-freedom-convoy/ https://pressprogress.ca/it-was-violent-peoples-commission-r...

hommelix 4y ago

I remember this text [1] when I read your comment. Thank you [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...

AussieWog93 4y ago

Honestly, I think a lot of people are pretty sick of protests in general, regardless of their political affiliation (probably not on HN, since we're extremely online and libertarian, but ask your grandma and see what she says). Whether it's the left doing it or the right, it seems that many protests have nothing to do with the "movement" at all and are just thinly veiled excuses to act like an ape and smear shit on the wall.

wolverine876 4y ago
Do you have any objective information to support that? Certainly some reactionary groups want to stop protests, which are a threat to authoritarian power. The reason is protests are often very effective; they are a threat to their power. Look at Israel now, for example. Look at the US Constitution, which went out of its way to protect protests.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
swayvil 4y ago
Voting (on social media, like here) is like protesting. They're both public expressions of emotion. Online anonymity is also like being-part-of-a-crowd anonymity. Frame either in whatever rational interpretation you like. But they both amount to howls of embrace/reject.

skylanh 4y ago

Canada's "The Trucker's Protest" is more commonly referred to as a hostile occupation and blockade. There is a strong white-washing attempt by certain unsavory elements to recast it as a benign protest movement.

4dayworkweek4u 4y ago
Do you believe in "my body my choice"?
arunharidas 4y ago
Same for most of the protests out there. You should not support surveillance even if you're against cause of protest. The government will come for you sooner or later.