7 ms·

> I wonder who is behind the astroturfing I noticed the same thing, but this really is a strange one since there isn't an obvious single party which would desi

by f_devd 4y ago

> I wonder who is behind the astroturfing I noticed the same thing, but this really is a strange one since there isn't an obvious single party which would desire this legislation (from my limited view). External state-actors (e.g. China for proxy-policing), or non-democratic internal politicians/leaders (EU/EEA neo-facists?), is the only thing I can imagine.

tpmx 4y ago
More likely, TBH, in this case: Just one random person with a strong conviction and sub-par execution. There is a meta-effect going on here: Your complaining about the now vastly downvoted comments is now filling the top of this topic.
- f_devd 4y ago
  You're probably right, seems like there hasn't been any new ones since the original influx. EDIT: never mind since posting this there have been a few more.
pilsetnieks 4y ago
It's a tired tale by now but stirring shit (whatever shit wherever it happens) is literally part of the Russian playbook [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics
- vuln 4y ago
  Really? Just the Russian playbook? No other country stirs shit up? No other country meddles in another country's affairs? No other country starts color revolutions to get someone they like to lead the country? No other country bombs another countries pipeline that serves "Allies"?
  - KptMarchewa 4y ago
    Yes, russia. And they don't even hide the threats: https://twitter.com/PMSimferopol/status/1634111915596173312 https://twitter.com/PMSimferopol/status/1634111915596173312
    - vuln 4y ago
      Neither does the US. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-07/biden-said-u-s-can-stop-nord-stream-2-if-russia-invades-ukraine https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-07/biden-sai...
      - KptMarchewa 4y ago
        Turns out he did not even have to do anything. Russians did it themselves.
        vuln 4y ago
        > Russians did it themselves. Do you have a source? Seems like the US IC is claiming a pro Ukrainian group did it. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/us-intelligence-suggests-pro-ukrainian-group-sabotaged-nord-stream-pipelines-nyt-2023-03-07/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/us-intelligence-suggest...
        KptMarchewa 4y ago
        Sounds like German media claims that US IC claims something.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
halfjoking 4y ago
Foreign Malign Influence Center? They seem so hostile to free speech, I’d be surprised if they weren’t astroturfing stuff like this. https://mobile.twitter.com/NameRedacted247/status/1628847554971435010 https://mobile.twitter.com/NameRedacted247/status/1628847554...
- flangola7 4y ago
  That's a US entity, not EU. I have my skeptic goggles on too because the accounts and comments on that whole thread are a rat's nest of typical Twitter right wing garbage. There's even people tagging Elon Musk who seem to think he protects anything more than speech he agrees with.
theusgovt 4y ago
[flagged]
rocqua 4y ago
The parties that want this are government agencies that want more power. Perhaps the companies that plan to support the government agencies in this work. There is a lot of money and political power that wants these laws. But they don't seem likely to be running any campaigns as obvious as astroturfing. Isn't it more likely that the new commenters are people who want to remain anonymous?
unity1001 4y ago
> there isn't an obvious single party which would desire this legislation Holy cow. Its amazing how the general public is so unaware of how the mechanism for lobbying for laws work: This 'pedophilia! think of the children!' thing along with its accompanying laws came to the public agenda at the same time in both sides of the Atlantic. In the US, in the Eu at the same time. And separately, in the UK. With various celebrities pushing it and certain segments in the respective parliaments introducting it all at the same time. In the same fashion that laws like ACTA, PIPA etc were pushed. Who wants it is pretty simple - the establishments want to spy on the citizens but they dont want the public stampede and ensuing fallout that laws like the Patriot act involves. If you would have any doubts about it, just look at what the UK establishment and its politicians say - having gotten used to get whatever they want regardless of what they say, they are directly saying "Just give us backdoors" to encryption software producers without bothering with the hassle of pedophilia. Which brings us to the below problem: > China for proxy-policing These people are able to commit all these evils, from patriot act to jailing whistleblowers, because the public rationalizes and justifies what they do and throws the blame and all the evils to outside just like you did. It wasnt China who pushed the patriot act. It wasnt China who spied on everyone on the planet as revealed by Snowden. It was our own establishments. And as long as people like you keep diverting the blame to outside like you have done, those who perpetrated such acts will keep getting bolder. ... Aside from all of these, there IS an actual party with a very specific interest that is pushing these laws, and the reason why it is doing this is so much sh*ttier than the above establishment reasons that you will want to gouge your eyes out: https://www.theregister.com/2022/10/13/clientside_scanning_csam_anderson/ https://www.theregister.com/2022/10/13/clientside_scanning_c... https://www.thorn.org/about-our-fight-against-sexual-exploitation-of-children/ https://www.thorn.org/about-our-fight-against-sexual-exploit... Ashton Kutcher is a founder of something called Thorn that sells spying software to chat services. He and his partner Demi Moore are pushing this pedophilia law on the Eu in order to be able to sell spying software to chat services. At the same time they are lobbying for client side spying, ie, spying on people from their browser. Washed up Hollywood actors trying to make money by destroying democracy...
- f_devd 4y ago
  I do understand how lobbying works as you described, however the question remains with who specifically are "the establishments" and why are they so gung ho on it when the public backlash is visible from miles away. > throws the blame and all the evils to outside just like you did. I realise that China is unlikely the originator for the lobbying but the discussion is on who would likely support the movement, still I considered the internal actors as well as a potential driver. > It was our own establishments. So would you expect it to be like an aggregate of different government agencies that would post fallacious comments? EDIT: posted before the '...' edit, that part actually does make sense and is very shitty indeed

by f_devd 4y ago

tpmx 4y ago

More likely, TBH, in this case: Just one random person with a strong conviction and sub-par execution. There is a meta-effect going on here: Your complaining about the now vastly downvoted comments is now filling the top of this topic.

f_devd 4y ago
You're probably right, seems like there hasn't been any new ones since the original influx. EDIT: never mind since posting this there have been a few more.

pilsetnieks 4y ago

It's a tired tale by now but stirring shit (whatever shit wherever it happens) is literally part of the Russian playbook [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics

vuln 4y ago
Really? Just the Russian playbook? No other country stirs shit up? No other country meddles in another country's affairs? No other country starts color revolutions to get someone they like to lead the country? No other country bombs another countries pipeline that serves "Allies"?
- KptMarchewa 4y ago
  Yes, russia. And they don't even hide the threats: https://twitter.com/PMSimferopol/status/1634111915596173312 https://twitter.com/PMSimferopol/status/1634111915596173312
  - vuln 4y ago
    Neither does the US. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-07/biden-said-u-s-can-stop-nord-stream-2-if-russia-invades-ukraine https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-07/biden-sai...
    - KptMarchewa 4y ago
      Turns out he did not even have to do anything. Russians did it themselves.
      - vuln 4y ago
        > Russians did it themselves. Do you have a source? Seems like the US IC is claiming a pro Ukrainian group did it. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/us-intelligence-suggests-pro-ukrainian-group-sabotaged-nord-stream-pipelines-nyt-2023-03-07/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/us-intelligence-suggest...
        KptMarchewa 4y ago
        Sounds like German media claims that US IC claims something.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]

halfjoking 4y ago

Foreign Malign Influence Center? They seem so hostile to free speech, I’d be surprised if they weren’t astroturfing stuff like this. https://mobile.twitter.com/NameRedacted247/status/1628847554971435010 https://mobile.twitter.com/NameRedacted247/status/1628847554...

flangola7 4y ago
That's a US entity, not EU. I have my skeptic goggles on too because the accounts and comments on that whole thread are a rat's nest of typical Twitter right wing garbage. There's even people tagging Elon Musk who seem to think he protects anything more than speech he agrees with.

theusgovt 4y ago

[flagged]

rocqua 4y ago

The parties that want this are government agencies that want more power. Perhaps the companies that plan to support the government agencies in this work. There is a lot of money and political power that wants these laws. But they don't seem likely to be running any campaigns as obvious as astroturfing. Isn't it more likely that the new commenters are people who want to remain anonymous?

unity1001 4y ago

> there isn't an obvious single party which would desire this legislation Holy cow. Its amazing how the general public is so unaware of how the mechanism for lobbying for laws work: This 'pedophilia! think of the children!' thing along with its accompanying laws came to the public agenda at the same time in both sides of the Atlantic. In the US, in the Eu at the same time. And separately, in the UK. With various celebrities pushing it and certain segments in the respective parliaments introducting it all at the same time. In the same fashion that laws like ACTA, PIPA etc were pushed. Who wants it is pretty simple - the establishments want to spy on the citizens but they dont want the public stampede and ensuing fallout that laws like the Patriot act involves. If you would have any doubts about it, just look at what the UK establishment and its politicians say - having gotten used to get whatever they want regardless of what they say, they are directly saying "Just give us backdoors" to encryption software producers without bothering with the hassle of pedophilia. Which brings us to the below problem: > China for proxy-policing These people are able to commit all these evils, from patriot act to jailing whistleblowers, because the public rationalizes and justifies what they do and throws the blame and all the evils to outside just like you did. It wasnt China who pushed the patriot act. It wasnt China who spied on everyone on the planet as revealed by Snowden. It was our own establishments. And as long as people like you keep diverting the blame to outside like you have done, those who perpetrated such acts will keep getting bolder. ... Aside from all of these, there IS an actual party with a very specific interest that is pushing these laws, and the reason why it is doing this is so much sh*ttier than the above establishment reasons that you will want to gouge your eyes out: https://www.theregister.com/2022/10/13/clientside_scanning_csam_anderson/ https://www.theregister.com/2022/10/13/clientside_scanning_c... https://www.thorn.org/about-our-fight-against-sexual-exploitation-of-children/ https://www.thorn.org/about-our-fight-against-sexual-exploit... Ashton Kutcher is a founder of something called Thorn that sells spying software to chat services. He and his partner Demi Moore are pushing this pedophilia law on the Eu in order to be able to sell spying software to chat services. At the same time they are lobbying for client side spying, ie, spying on people from their browser. Washed up Hollywood actors trying to make money by destroying democracy...

f_devd 4y ago
I do understand how lobbying works as you described, however the question remains with who specifically are "the establishments" and why are they so gung ho on it when the public backlash is visible from miles away. > throws the blame and all the evils to outside just like you did. I realise that China is unlikely the originator for the lobbying but the discussion is on who would likely support the movement, still I considered the internal actors as well as a potential driver. > It was our own establishments. So would you expect it to be like an aggregate of different government agencies that would post fallacious comments? EDIT: posted before the '...' edit, that part actually does make sense and is very shitty indeed