8 ms·

> Cerebral’s data lapse is the second-largest breach of health data in 2023. We're not even three full months into 2023, and this is the second biggest? I can'

> Cerebral’s data lapse is the second-largest breach of health data in 2023. We're not even three full months into 2023, and this is the second biggest? I can't even comprehend how anybody thought this was a good idea. Really thinking that basing our economy's primary motivator on human greed isn't doing us many favors right now, not when it's so easy for bad actors to out-earn any and all penalties.

mistrial9 4y ago
this is not new -- in the 1980s I recall the story of a sales agent who figured out that radio station license renewal or sale was subject to strict conditions as part of protecting market areas. So when a radio station was approaching FCC license deadline, this sales agent discovered that pre-bidding on the license before the legal renewal started, and then pre-selling that license to interested parties as if they had control of it, was very profitable; rinse, repeat. A sales-boiler room was setup in Florida and stations across the USA got the treatment. Everyone gets paid. When sleepy enforcement caught up, the guy terminated all his willing sales guys with some cash to be quiet, and literally hid in his sister-in-law's basement for more than two years, with lots of money to pay bills.
- falcolas 4y ago
  IMO, the problem is that they no longer have to hide. They pay a pittance of a fine (usually a pittance because the fine amount is static and set a decade+ ago) and keep right on doing it.
p1esk 4y ago
basing our economy's primary motivator on human greed isn't doing us many favors right now How would you fix it?
- moomoo3000 4y ago
  Heavy fines
  - eurasiantiger 4y ago
    So you think that a greed-based demotivator will truly impact greedy behavior in any positive way for society at large? The greedy will just find ways to hide their greed.
    - moomoo3000 4y ago
      Make them work harder for it
    - MonkeyMalarky 4y ago
      Ah I see, we should not fine or punish criminals because otherwise they would just hide their criminal behaviour. Makes sense.
      - warent 4y ago
        MonkeyMalarky says: malarky detected
      - eurasiantiger 4y ago
        Kudos, that is exactly what I’m saying. How is the current approach working in your opinion?
        warent 4y ago
        It depends on what country you're talking about. In Burundi you'll probably just be captured and murdered. The USA has very high recitivism when we throw ex convicts out on the streets homeless and broke, which is not a punishment, it's just piss-poor social management. Norway has one of the lowestest recitivism rates in the world. They combine just punishments with actual correctional assistance for reintegration into society. Punishments with real correctional assistance and social resources is a proven successful combination.
  - tomp 4y ago
    Fines are just “cost of business” for companies. Either bankrupt the company (fine is 20% of yearly revenue) or jail the executives and everyone responsible.
- arrosenberg 4y ago
  Believe it or not, I think putting white collar criminals in prison for lengthy sentences would dissuade them. Imagine if we were learning this news alongside pictures of the CEO, CFO and some board members in handcuffs being perp walked out of the office? The next start up would think way harder about security.
  - p1esk 4y ago
    The society would need to agree on the seriousness of the crime of selling personal information. Is it as serious as selling drugs? A burglary? Rape? Do you think the majority of the Americans would share your opinion on the matter? Keep in mind US incarceration rate is one of the highest in the world.
    - arrosenberg 4y ago
      The average person is pretty thirsty to see white collar criminals reigned in, yes.
      - p1esk 4y ago
        I'm guessing a similar argument was made in support of the "war on drugs". Many drug dealers have been punished harshly. 50 years later, nothing has changed.
        arrosenberg 4y ago
        The war on drugs was perpetuated by the Nixon and Reagan administrations to criminalize being antiwar and being black. Do you think that is what is happening here?
        p1esk 4y ago
        I strongly suspect the war on drugs was initiated mainly because drugs were ruining many lives (just like they do today), and that selling illegal drugs was perceived by the majority of population as a crime deserving a harsh punishment.
- mellosouls 4y ago
  I just followed the thread down from here and you seem to be so determined to undermine or counter every reasonable point that it could be suspected your original question here is motivated by ideological or other partial objection rather than genuine interest in the answer.
  - p1esk 4y ago
    I have a genuine interest in the discussion. I, too, tried to be reasonable in my arguments.
    - mellosouls 4y ago
      Well, thank you for the polite response here, I certainly wouldn't want or intend to discourage genuine good faith discussion; it just registered as otherwise motivated in that instance for me.
- shkkmo 4y ago
  Increase fines to a point where the estimated prosecution rate makes the expected value of breaking the law negative. Directly punish executives, upper management, board members and large shareholders when their companies break the law rather than just fining the company. This could include fines, prohibitions from holding similar positions, and jail time. Stop commoditizing ownership by prohibiting ownership of companies by non-participants. This last one would have the largest impact but is the least likely.
polishdude20 4y ago
I mean if there are two this year, then being second biggest doesn't mean much?
- lizard 4y ago
  Right?! If the first breach included 2 records and this only 1, it would still be the "second biggest" breach of the year. But, the necessary context is right in the first paragraph: > ...more than 3.1 million patients in the United States... So to clarify, "We're not even three full months into 2023, and 3.1 million records is the second biggest?" which is quite alarming.
matheusmoreira 4y ago
> I can't even comprehend how anybody thought this was a good idea. Oh, it's easy. Advertisers showed people millions of dollars. The people in charge were quickly convinced of the "need" for patients to consent to having their medical information sold to the highest bidder. They corrupt everything.
- lo_zamoyski 4y ago
  > They corrupt everything. More accurately, their own corruption exposed the corruption already present in others. It just needed the right opportunity to hatch. Live for money, die by money. (Generally speaking, it's quite common for most of us to think highly of ourselves and our moral character ("I'm a good person. I'm not Hitler!"), but under the right circumstances, many (but not all) of us would discover the flaws in our own hearts. A routine examination of conscience, and refinement or correction of defects in the conscience, is enormously helpful and essential to leading a life of moral excellence and virtue.)
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

mistrial9 4y ago

this is not new -- in the 1980s I recall the story of a sales agent who figured out that radio station license renewal or sale was subject to strict conditions as part of protecting market areas. So when a radio station was approaching FCC license deadline, this sales agent discovered that pre-bidding on the license before the legal renewal started, and then pre-selling that license to interested parties as if they had control of it, was very profitable; rinse, repeat. A sales-boiler room was setup in Florida and stations across the USA got the treatment. Everyone gets paid. When sleepy enforcement caught up, the guy terminated all his willing sales guys with some cash to be quiet, and literally hid in his sister-in-law's basement for more than two years, with lots of money to pay bills.

falcolas 4y ago
IMO, the problem is that they no longer have to hide. They pay a pittance of a fine (usually a pittance because the fine amount is static and set a decade+ ago) and keep right on doing it.

p1esk 4y ago

basing our economy's primary motivator on human greed isn't doing us many favors right now How would you fix it?

moomoo3000 4y ago
Heavy fines
- eurasiantiger 4y ago
  So you think that a greed-based demotivator will truly impact greedy behavior in any positive way for society at large? The greedy will just find ways to hide their greed.
  - moomoo3000 4y ago
    Make them work harder for it
  - MonkeyMalarky 4y ago
    Ah I see, we should not fine or punish criminals because otherwise they would just hide their criminal behaviour. Makes sense.
    - warent 4y ago
      MonkeyMalarky says: malarky detected
    - eurasiantiger 4y ago
      Kudos, that is exactly what I’m saying. How is the current approach working in your opinion?
      - warent 4y ago
        It depends on what country you're talking about. In Burundi you'll probably just be captured and murdered. The USA has very high recitivism when we throw ex convicts out on the streets homeless and broke, which is not a punishment, it's just piss-poor social management. Norway has one of the lowestest recitivism rates in the world. They combine just punishments with actual correctional assistance for reintegration into society. Punishments with real correctional assistance and social resources is a proven successful combination.
- tomp 4y ago
  Fines are just “cost of business” for companies. Either bankrupt the company (fine is 20% of yearly revenue) or jail the executives and everyone responsible.
arrosenberg 4y ago
Believe it or not, I think putting white collar criminals in prison for lengthy sentences would dissuade them. Imagine if we were learning this news alongside pictures of the CEO, CFO and some board members in handcuffs being perp walked out of the office? The next start up would think way harder about security.
- p1esk 4y ago
  The society would need to agree on the seriousness of the crime of selling personal information. Is it as serious as selling drugs? A burglary? Rape? Do you think the majority of the Americans would share your opinion on the matter? Keep in mind US incarceration rate is one of the highest in the world.
  - arrosenberg 4y ago
    The average person is pretty thirsty to see white collar criminals reigned in, yes.
    - p1esk 4y ago
      I'm guessing a similar argument was made in support of the "war on drugs". Many drug dealers have been punished harshly. 50 years later, nothing has changed.
      - arrosenberg 4y ago
        The war on drugs was perpetuated by the Nixon and Reagan administrations to criminalize being antiwar and being black. Do you think that is what is happening here?
        p1esk 4y ago
        I strongly suspect the war on drugs was initiated mainly because drugs were ruining many lives (just like they do today), and that selling illegal drugs was perceived by the majority of population as a crime deserving a harsh punishment.
mellosouls 4y ago
I just followed the thread down from here and you seem to be so determined to undermine or counter every reasonable point that it could be suspected your original question here is motivated by ideological or other partial objection rather than genuine interest in the answer.
- p1esk 4y ago
  I have a genuine interest in the discussion. I, too, tried to be reasonable in my arguments.
  - mellosouls 4y ago
    Well, thank you for the polite response here, I certainly wouldn't want or intend to discourage genuine good faith discussion; it just registered as otherwise motivated in that instance for me.
shkkmo 4y ago
Increase fines to a point where the estimated prosecution rate makes the expected value of breaking the law negative. Directly punish executives, upper management, board members and large shareholders when their companies break the law rather than just fining the company. This could include fines, prohibitions from holding similar positions, and jail time. Stop commoditizing ownership by prohibiting ownership of companies by non-participants. This last one would have the largest impact but is the least likely.

polishdude20 4y ago

I mean if there are two this year, then being second biggest doesn't mean much?

lizard 4y ago
Right?! If the first breach included 2 records and this only 1, it would still be the "second biggest" breach of the year. But, the necessary context is right in the first paragraph: > ...more than 3.1 million patients in the United States... So to clarify, "We're not even three full months into 2023, and 3.1 million records is the second biggest?" which is quite alarming.

matheusmoreira 4y ago

> I can't even comprehend how anybody thought this was a good idea. Oh, it's easy. Advertisers showed people millions of dollars. The people in charge were quickly convinced of the "need" for patients to consent to having their medical information sold to the highest bidder. They corrupt everything.

lo_zamoyski 4y ago
> They corrupt everything. More accurately, their own corruption exposed the corruption already present in others. It just needed the right opportunity to hatch. Live for money, die by money. (Generally speaking, it's quite common for most of us to think highly of ourselves and our moral character ("I'm a good person. I'm not Hitler!"), but under the right circumstances, many (but not all) of us would discover the flaws in our own hearts. A routine examination of conscience, and refinement or correction of defects in the conscience, is enormously helpful and essential to leading a life of moral excellence and virtue.)

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]