5 ms·

Put in other terms, it's like asking why the left-handed percentage of the population rose after left-handedness stopped being beaten out of children.

junofan 4y ago
No, because left-handedness is not commonly treated with hormones and surgery, and medical practitioners do not report feeling pressured to eschew normal clinical reasoning when a child presents with left-handedness.
- t-writescode 4y ago
  Children had left-handedness beat out of them - surprising and strange for our time; but then is not now. And the experience of trans people the nation over is not one any person would want to experience. If a person imagined they wanted the adoration and attention of others for being trans, they sure wouldn't want it for long. The mockery from their peers, their elders, their representatives and the literal State actively seeking to "eradicate" them is a *whole lot of harm* just for media clout.
  - stakhanov 4y ago
    I don't buy the "why would anyone volunteer for adversity" argument. It seem to me there's a normal function of the teenage psyche that leads a small percentage of them to try to fit in as little as possible: goth makeup comes to mind.
- stakhanov 4y ago
  I agree with the parent comment, and don't understand why it's being downvoted. Not beating a child is always the right course of action, regardless of whether there is left-handedness that one is trying to "correct". The kind of "treatment" that someone undergoes for gender dysphoria is incredibly invasive and doesn't seem compatible with the maxim "first, do no harm" unless gender dysphoria were something that had severely negative health outcomes if untreated. Since gender dysphoria is a health issue that's psychological in nature, this needs to be measured against a baseline of psychological health issues actually being quite prevalent even in the general population. Left-handedness is grounded in physiology and neurology, which are "hard" medical sciences, while gender dysphoria is only grounded in clinical psychology, which just isn't. When I say "hard" medical science, I roughly mean this: Physiology and clinical psychology both have a history of iatrogenic horror. But for physiology, you need to go much further back in time to find it. And while health intervention on both physiological and psychological grounds have been on the rise, health outcomes on physiological conditions have generally improved through history, while the population seems to be getting sicker and sicker where psychological conditions are concerned.
leeroyjenkins11 4y ago
But that doesn't make sense when you look at the suicide rates of children who are trans. It is thought by some that the suicide rates are high due to lack of acceptance. But if the lack of acceptance caused the suicides, then all of these suppressed trans kids should have dying, but that's not the case. And the comparison between left handedness and transgenderism is absurd, because people have both left and right hands. Transgenderism is more akin to a bunch of kids deciding they have BID and want to cut off limbs. It's about a mental illness causing them to think something isn't true. Imagine what would happen if bulimia became socially accepted and celebrated, do you think we'd see a giant uptick in eating disorders?
raxxorraxor 4y ago
I don't think this is entirely comparable as there never was social capital attached to being left handed. Some do think there is with gender transitioning though. There are parents that transitions their 4-5 year olds. I doubt the kids would meet any clinical diagnosis or that it would be possible to diagnose at that age. You can expect a higher percentage that will be diagnosed with dysphoria compared to the former baseline, but I don't think we only see that effect. Perhaps it is even the smaller component.
- faeriechangling 4y ago
  I've heard left handed people consistently being portrayed as being "Creative" and "Artistic" and I tried to be left handed/ambidextrous when I was a child because would be cool or unique. While left handedness doesn't have quite this reputation, being ambidextrous is associated with genius, you hear stories like how James A. Garfield could write Latin in one hand and Greek in the other. I could never use my left hand like this successfully though so I gave this up. I also intentionally tried to use leftie stances in sports and I was mindfully doing it just to be different because I thought that was cool when I was like, 7 years old. This stuck a lot more, probably because I learned how to do things with a leftie stance from the get-go. I think you underestimate how much stupid crap kids will try to imitate if they think it's vaguely cool and how much this can stick in a very real way. If I tried to do some sports as a "righty" I would fall on my ass. I was never actually much for social status either and kids actually gave me shit for not using a right handed stance.

junofan 4y ago

No, because left-handedness is not commonly treated with hormones and surgery, and medical practitioners do not report feeling pressured to eschew normal clinical reasoning when a child presents with left-handedness.

t-writescode 4y ago
Children had left-handedness beat out of them - surprising and strange for our time; but then is not now. And the experience of trans people the nation over is not one any person would want to experience. If a person imagined they wanted the adoration and attention of others for being trans, they sure wouldn't want it for long. The mockery from their peers, their elders, their representatives and the literal State actively seeking to "eradicate" them is a *whole lot of harm* just for media clout.
- stakhanov 4y ago
  I don't buy the "why would anyone volunteer for adversity" argument. It seem to me there's a normal function of the teenage psyche that leads a small percentage of them to try to fit in as little as possible: goth makeup comes to mind.
stakhanov 4y ago
I agree with the parent comment, and don't understand why it's being downvoted. Not beating a child is always the right course of action, regardless of whether there is left-handedness that one is trying to "correct". The kind of "treatment" that someone undergoes for gender dysphoria is incredibly invasive and doesn't seem compatible with the maxim "first, do no harm" unless gender dysphoria were something that had severely negative health outcomes if untreated. Since gender dysphoria is a health issue that's psychological in nature, this needs to be measured against a baseline of psychological health issues actually being quite prevalent even in the general population. Left-handedness is grounded in physiology and neurology, which are "hard" medical sciences, while gender dysphoria is only grounded in clinical psychology, which just isn't. When I say "hard" medical science, I roughly mean this: Physiology and clinical psychology both have a history of iatrogenic horror. But for physiology, you need to go much further back in time to find it. And while health intervention on both physiological and psychological grounds have been on the rise, health outcomes on physiological conditions have generally improved through history, while the population seems to be getting sicker and sicker where psychological conditions are concerned.

leeroyjenkins11 4y ago

But that doesn't make sense when you look at the suicide rates of children who are trans. It is thought by some that the suicide rates are high due to lack of acceptance. But if the lack of acceptance caused the suicides, then all of these suppressed trans kids should have dying, but that's not the case. And the comparison between left handedness and transgenderism is absurd, because people have both left and right hands. Transgenderism is more akin to a bunch of kids deciding they have BID and want to cut off limbs. It's about a mental illness causing them to think something isn't true. Imagine what would happen if bulimia became socially accepted and celebrated, do you think we'd see a giant uptick in eating disorders?

raxxorraxor 4y ago

I don't think this is entirely comparable as there never was social capital attached to being left handed. Some do think there is with gender transitioning though. There are parents that transitions their 4-5 year olds. I doubt the kids would meet any clinical diagnosis or that it would be possible to diagnose at that age. You can expect a higher percentage that will be diagnosed with dysphoria compared to the former baseline, but I don't think we only see that effect. Perhaps it is even the smaller component.

faeriechangling 4y ago
I've heard left handed people consistently being portrayed as being "Creative" and "Artistic" and I tried to be left handed/ambidextrous when I was a child because would be cool or unique. While left handedness doesn't have quite this reputation, being ambidextrous is associated with genius, you hear stories like how James A. Garfield could write Latin in one hand and Greek in the other. I could never use my left hand like this successfully though so I gave this up. I also intentionally tried to use leftie stances in sports and I was mindfully doing it just to be different because I thought that was cool when I was like, 7 years old. This stuck a lot more, probably because I learned how to do things with a leftie stance from the get-go. I think you underestimate how much stupid crap kids will try to imitate if they think it's vaguely cool and how much this can stick in a very real way. If I tried to do some sports as a "righty" I would fall on my ass. I was never actually much for social status either and kids actually gave me shit for not using a right handed stance.