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Its kinda funny reading these. Kotlin and Groovy exist, which fixed a lot of the issues with core java (like for example requiring a class around a main functio

Its kinda funny reading these. Kotlin and Groovy exist, which fixed a lot of the issues with core java (like for example requiring a class around a main function), but yet Java developers are completely oblivious to this. This kind of stuff should be in the core language. Im convinced that Java exists solely to create positions within Software Engineering industry. It requires you to write more code than necessary by design.

re-thc 4y ago
It's not a 1:1 replacement. Some things are better and some are worse with Groovy and Kotlin. Not everything is "fixed".
- ActorNightly 4y ago
  If google moves their entire app development workflow for Android to Kotlin, its pretty much a 1:1 replacement.
  - re-thc 4y ago
    That's like saying if Java can adopt more features we don't need Kotlin? Doesn't help either way. It doesn't help either way. Kotlin definitely has its quirks and issues. Multiplatform means they're trying to re-invent everything and yet don't have all the resources to. With Kotlin moving to KSP for annotation processing this has been another source of pain with library developers having to maintain 2 variants. Not everything is KSP supported either. It's not quite so straight forward.
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    Yet they caved in, added Java 11 LTS to Android 12/13 and Java 17 LTS is coming this year. It turns out that being unable to use Java libraries is a big issue when one doesn't want to re-create the Java world in Kotlin.
kaba0 4y ago
For some reason people really can’t step over that 2 lines of boilerplate for Hello World, but here you are, it is being worked on: https://openjdk.org/jeps/8302326 https://openjdk.org/jeps/8302326
lenkite 4y ago
Java projects compile 2x faster than Kotlin projects and don't hang the IDE. Kotlin is nice for small stuff but has severe issues when scaling up. Also, Java is far, far simpler to code in compared to Kotlin. Modern Java is quite pleasant. The language advantages of Kotlin frankly aren't enough to switch. It may have been supreme in 2016, but Kotlin has lost most of its head-start now. Java has caught in both mature language features and lean libraries. And folks do prefer simpler languages. There is a reason that Go is popular.

re-thc 4y ago

It's not a 1:1 replacement. Some things are better and some are worse with Groovy and Kotlin. Not everything is "fixed".

ActorNightly 4y ago
If google moves their entire app development workflow for Android to Kotlin, its pretty much a 1:1 replacement.
- re-thc 4y ago
  That's like saying if Java can adopt more features we don't need Kotlin? Doesn't help either way. It doesn't help either way. Kotlin definitely has its quirks and issues. Multiplatform means they're trying to re-invent everything and yet don't have all the resources to. With Kotlin moving to KSP for annotation processing this has been another source of pain with library developers having to maintain 2 variants. Not everything is KSP supported either. It's not quite so straight forward.
- pjmlp 4y ago
  Yet they caved in, added Java 11 LTS to Android 12/13 and Java 17 LTS is coming this year. It turns out that being unable to use Java libraries is a big issue when one doesn't want to re-create the Java world in Kotlin.

kaba0 4y ago

For some reason people really can’t step over that 2 lines of boilerplate for Hello World, but here you are, it is being worked on: https://openjdk.org/jeps/8302326 https://openjdk.org/jeps/8302326

lenkite 4y ago

Java projects compile 2x faster than Kotlin projects and don't hang the IDE. Kotlin is nice for small stuff but has severe issues when scaling up. Also, Java is far, far simpler to code in compared to Kotlin. Modern Java is quite pleasant. The language advantages of Kotlin frankly aren't enough to switch. It may have been supreme in 2016, but Kotlin has lost most of its head-start now. Java has caught in both mature language features and lean libraries. And folks do prefer simpler languages. There is a reason that Go is popular.