4 ms·

It was only a few centuries ago that we paid this exclusive, elite upper class in society called scribes to write and transcribe things for us, because we weren

by jmtame 15y ago

It was only a few centuries ago that we paid this exclusive, elite upper class in society called scribes to write and transcribe things for us, because we weren't literate enough to do it ourselves. The parallels are pretty surprising today: we're paying an exclusive, elite class called programmers to write in the languages understood by computers. Software is eating the world, jobs are being displaced, and the demand for technical talent is as high as its ever been.

Dybbuk 15y ago
There is also a defect in this comparison in that the journalists weren't helping displace average joe's jobs, but programmers are.
mtts 15y ago
Scribes were reasonably well off, sure, but to call them an "exclusive, elite upper class" goes beyond stretching it. Scribes were decently paid clerks that worked for scheming, sword wielding thugs who only gradually became literate themselves. I don't think we're an elite, upper class now either. We're decently paid clerks that perform an essential task for our scheming, private jet flying, yes, thuggish overlords that for now at least haven't become computer literate themselves. Yet. But the day will come that they will have, or at least will have become computer literate enough to operate the software that has displaced us. If that day comes after I've died, I don't mind. Otherwise it'll be a problem.
bad_user 15y ago
Everybody can talk, but few people can be successful salesmen. Anyone could learn to play a musical instrument, but few people are actually doing it and even fewer people are good at it. Related to scribes, even if mostly everyone knows how to read or write, that doesn't mean that book authors are obsolete. Writing novels and technical books is an endeavor that requires much more than simply being capable to read and write. So I don't really get why this analogy is being made. Well, actually I do. It's for the same reason why recruiters are doing keyword matching on resumes.
rythie 15y ago
Is programming that elite though? wages seemed to have hardly changed in the U.K. in the last 10 years (accounting for inflation). Also programming pays a similar amount to other jobs requiring a degree and is certainly a lot less than jobs like accountancy, finance, law and medical doctors. For example, average programmer salary in 2004 was about £31k and in £38k http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/jobs/uk/programmer.do http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/jobs/uk/programmer.do and if you calculate £31k in today's money you get £38,440 [http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-1633409/Historic-inflation-calculator-value-money-changed-1900.html http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-1633409/His...]
- lrobb 15y ago
  I saw an interesting chart, but can't find it now, that showed the average salary of programmers in the US hadn't budged in 10 years either... Hardly something you would expect if there was a true shortage. Since I never pass up a chance for the joke: A lawyer or accountant with 30 years of experience is charging a lot of money or semi-retired... A programmer with 30 years of experience is likely unemployed.
  - cellis 15y ago
    I actually happen to know TONS of unemployed lawyers and accountants. There's quite an oversupply of lawyers. Not sure about accountants, but they are increasingly marginalized anyways.
    - lrobb 15y ago
      You must know a lot of unlucky people. The unemployment rate for lawyers is 1.5%! http://www.cooley.edu/newsevents/2011/081111_lawyer_employment_rates_high.html http://www.cooley.edu/newsevents/2011/081111_lawyer_employme...
- gaius 15y ago
  What no-one will talk about is: the economy never actually recovered from the dot-com crash. The last 10 years were a mirage built on debt. So now we need to deal with TWO aftermaths. And that is why economists say UK standards of living will revert to 2002 levels.

by jmtame 15y ago

Dybbuk 15y ago

There is also a defect in this comparison in that the journalists weren't helping displace average joe's jobs, but programmers are.

mtts 15y ago

Scribes were reasonably well off, sure, but to call them an "exclusive, elite upper class" goes beyond stretching it. Scribes were decently paid clerks that worked for scheming, sword wielding thugs who only gradually became literate themselves. I don't think we're an elite, upper class now either. We're decently paid clerks that perform an essential task for our scheming, private jet flying, yes, thuggish overlords that for now at least haven't become computer literate themselves. Yet. But the day will come that they will have, or at least will have become computer literate enough to operate the software that has displaced us. If that day comes after I've died, I don't mind. Otherwise it'll be a problem.

bad_user 15y ago

Everybody can talk, but few people can be successful salesmen. Anyone could learn to play a musical instrument, but few people are actually doing it and even fewer people are good at it. Related to scribes, even if mostly everyone knows how to read or write, that doesn't mean that book authors are obsolete. Writing novels and technical books is an endeavor that requires much more than simply being capable to read and write. So I don't really get why this analogy is being made. Well, actually I do. It's for the same reason why recruiters are doing keyword matching on resumes.

rythie 15y ago

Is programming that elite though? wages seemed to have hardly changed in the U.K. in the last 10 years (accounting for inflation). Also programming pays a similar amount to other jobs requiring a degree and is certainly a lot less than jobs like accountancy, finance, law and medical doctors. For example, average programmer salary in 2004 was about £31k and in £38k http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/jobs/uk/programmer.do http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/jobs/uk/programmer.do and if you calculate £31k in today's money you get £38,440 [http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-1633409/Historic-inflation-calculator-value-money-changed-1900.html http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-1633409/His...]

lrobb 15y ago
I saw an interesting chart, but can't find it now, that showed the average salary of programmers in the US hadn't budged in 10 years either... Hardly something you would expect if there was a true shortage. Since I never pass up a chance for the joke: A lawyer or accountant with 30 years of experience is charging a lot of money or semi-retired... A programmer with 30 years of experience is likely unemployed.
- cellis 15y ago
  I actually happen to know TONS of unemployed lawyers and accountants. There's quite an oversupply of lawyers. Not sure about accountants, but they are increasingly marginalized anyways.
  - lrobb 15y ago
    You must know a lot of unlucky people. The unemployment rate for lawyers is 1.5%! http://www.cooley.edu/newsevents/2011/081111_lawyer_employment_rates_high.html http://www.cooley.edu/newsevents/2011/081111_lawyer_employme...
gaius 15y ago
What no-one will talk about is: the economy never actually recovered from the dot-com crash. The last 10 years were a mirage built on debt. So now we need to deal with TWO aftermaths. And that is why economists say UK standards of living will revert to 2002 levels.