5 ms·

Ah, so you don't use systemd? Just because you don't know about something and never learnt how to use it, it doesn't make it irrelevant.

re-thc 4y ago
Chances are it's a Kubernetes pod using containers these days :)
- bombolo 4y ago
  Yes with a /dev/log unix datagram socket mounted from the host and forwarded to a log collector that java can't connect to, so instead stdout is redirected but it doesn't support log levels.
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    Better go tell that to Amazon, Google and Azure.
    - bombolo 4y ago
      Unsurprisingly, it seems after all people do logging with syslog (as if there was any doubt) https://www.ibm.com/cloud/blog/kubernetes-log-forwarding-syslog https://www.ibm.com/cloud/blog/kubernetes-log-forwarding-sys...
      - pjmlp 4y ago
        Not much experience with IBM Cloud it seems, dumping a random blog post from 2017, here you go how we actually do it in modern times, https://cloud.ibm.com/docs/log-analysis?topic=log-analysis-log_analysis_agent https://cloud.ibm.com/docs/log-analysis?topic=log-analysis-l...
        bombolo 4y ago
        Did you even read the link you sent me? That thing monitors journald. Systemd is obsolete… let's use systemd! Embarrassing :)
        pjmlp 4y ago
        I do my dear, time to move forward from PDP-11.
        bombolo 4y ago
        A word of advice: read your links before you send them next time; it could make you look smarter.
pjmlp 4y ago
No I don't, because hardly anyone still deploys barebones VMs, unless they can't do otherwise. In theory, containers, application containers, and serverless language runtimes only need a type 1 hypervisor or bare bones kernel to execute. In practice, there is still some kind of kernel underneath as convenience to the infrastructure people. Actually, when we deploy VMs, it is mostly Windows ones, as Windows containers still have a couple of gotchas, so no systemd there as well any way. Finally, systemd is a Linux thing, and there are more UNIXes to choose from.
- bombolo 4y ago
  > Actually, when we deploy VMs, it is mostly Windows ones, as Windows containers still have a couple of gotchas, so no systemd there as well any way. Ah you're a windows developer… Perhaps talk to someone who works on servers before completely dismissing valid input that is completely outside of your expertise next time? > Finally, systemd is a Linux thing, and there are more UNIXes to choose from. And all of those report readiness with a fork(), which java can't do.
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    > Ah you're a windows developer… Perhaps talk to someone who works on servers before completely dismissing valid input that is completely outside of your expertise next time? Nope, I am a Java, .NET, nodejs and C++ developer. Cross platform languages. > And all of those report readiness with a fork(), which java can't do. fork() is legacy, it can't even handle modern UNIX workloads with threads.
    - bombolo 4y ago
      > Cross platform languages. You don't know unix things, yes. I can't understand how can someone be so proud of not knowing something. Python and C++ are cross platforms and both support the things I listed that java doesn't support. > fork() is legacy, it can't even handle modern UNIX workloads with threads. Lol, ok. Next you're going to tell me file descriptors are obsolete? Just a curiosity, what do you use instead of fork()?

re-thc 4y ago

Chances are it's a Kubernetes pod using containers these days :)

bombolo 4y ago
Yes with a /dev/log unix datagram socket mounted from the host and forwarded to a log collector that java can't connect to, so instead stdout is redirected but it doesn't support log levels.
- pjmlp 4y ago
  Better go tell that to Amazon, Google and Azure.
  - bombolo 4y ago
    Unsurprisingly, it seems after all people do logging with syslog (as if there was any doubt) https://www.ibm.com/cloud/blog/kubernetes-log-forwarding-syslog https://www.ibm.com/cloud/blog/kubernetes-log-forwarding-sys...
    - pjmlp 4y ago
      Not much experience with IBM Cloud it seems, dumping a random blog post from 2017, here you go how we actually do it in modern times, https://cloud.ibm.com/docs/log-analysis?topic=log-analysis-log_analysis_agent https://cloud.ibm.com/docs/log-analysis?topic=log-analysis-l...
      - bombolo 4y ago
        Did you even read the link you sent me? That thing monitors journald. Systemd is obsolete… let's use systemd! Embarrassing :)
        pjmlp 4y ago
        I do my dear, time to move forward from PDP-11.
        bombolo 4y ago
        A word of advice: read your links before you send them next time; it could make you look smarter.

pjmlp 4y ago

No I don't, because hardly anyone still deploys barebones VMs, unless they can't do otherwise. In theory, containers, application containers, and serverless language runtimes only need a type 1 hypervisor or bare bones kernel to execute. In practice, there is still some kind of kernel underneath as convenience to the infrastructure people. Actually, when we deploy VMs, it is mostly Windows ones, as Windows containers still have a couple of gotchas, so no systemd there as well any way. Finally, systemd is a Linux thing, and there are more UNIXes to choose from.

bombolo 4y ago
> Actually, when we deploy VMs, it is mostly Windows ones, as Windows containers still have a couple of gotchas, so no systemd there as well any way. Ah you're a windows developer… Perhaps talk to someone who works on servers before completely dismissing valid input that is completely outside of your expertise next time? > Finally, systemd is a Linux thing, and there are more UNIXes to choose from. And all of those report readiness with a fork(), which java can't do.
- pjmlp 4y ago
  > Ah you're a windows developer… Perhaps talk to someone who works on servers before completely dismissing valid input that is completely outside of your expertise next time? Nope, I am a Java, .NET, nodejs and C++ developer. Cross platform languages. > And all of those report readiness with a fork(), which java can't do. fork() is legacy, it can't even handle modern UNIX workloads with threads.
  - bombolo 4y ago
    > Cross platform languages. You don't know unix things, yes. I can't understand how can someone be so proud of not knowing something. Python and C++ are cross platforms and both support the things I listed that java doesn't support. > fork() is legacy, it can't even handle modern UNIX workloads with threads. Lol, ok. Next you're going to tell me file descriptors are obsolete? Just a curiosity, what do you use instead of fork()?