4 ms·

An option we're not discussing is to simply drive less cars. That means reducing the amount of cars needed on a societal level.

by kiba 4y ago

midoridensha 4y ago
That would be great, but Americans simply won't stand for it. They all want to drive 3-ton SUVs everywhere. And people in many other countries aren't that much better.
- robomartin 4y ago
  > They all want to drive 3-ton SUVs everywhere. To be fair, the sparseness and geographic distribution of population, business and industrial centers in a great deal of the US is such that driving a car quickly becomes the only sensible option. A large SUV, sure, that's a valid question. Some of it is also driven by geography/topology. These cities did not evolve with mass transport as an important option. To give you an idea of what this means in practice. I can get to the nearest major airport in about 30 minutes by car (at night, no traffic). If I want to use mass transit, it will take a minimum of 3 hours, only if you time it perfectly. It could take you six hours. It's worse than that. Here's what I would have to do: Walk 30 minutes Get on a bus for 35 minutes Walk for another 5 minutes Get on another bus for 54 minutes Walk another 5 minutes Get on a bus for 20 minutes Walk 30 minutes Arrived Remember that, these days, you have to be at the airport two to three hours before your flight. Now add weather, heat, rain, carrying luggage, perhaps travelling with kids, etc. I'm sorry, even the most ardent environmentalist is going to just throw everything into a large SUV or minivan and just get there. This reality will not change. These cities are simply not designed for what exists in other parts of the world. The only hope we have is a future where shared self-driving robot cars can make a difference. I can't see anything else that might change this reality.
- hnbad 4y ago
  Is wanting to drive 3-ton SUVs everywhere something inherent to those humans or do you think there are other circumstances encouraging that? And do you think those circumstances could be changed? Sometimes I get the impression that despite all the futurism talk most tech people's solution to a trash fire is to say nothing can be done about it and just go back to the line of people throwing more trash into the fire.
  - midoridensha 4y ago
    Nothing can be done about the trash fire when everyone else actually likes the trash fire. One person can't change the world (not when everyone else is opposed to him). Sure, you can blame the 3-ton SUV proliferation on the car-centric society Americans have created for themselves, but that isn't going to change anytime soon, unless Americans are forced to change it somehow. Sure, a lot of Americans complain about it, some of them even try to do something about it, but it isn't enough, because most other Americans actually like it that way and work against their efforts. Even the ones who complain mostly don't understand that it's a product of their own choices and how much they're contributing to the problem personally.

An option we're not discussing is to simply drive less cars. That means reducing the amount of cars needed on a societal level.

by kiba 4y ago

An option we're not discussing is to simply drive less cars. That means reducing the amount of cars needed on a societal level.

midoridensha 4y ago

That would be great, but Americans simply won't stand for it. They all want to drive 3-ton SUVs everywhere. And people in many other countries aren't that much better.

robomartin 4y ago
> They all want to drive 3-ton SUVs everywhere. To be fair, the sparseness and geographic distribution of population, business and industrial centers in a great deal of the US is such that driving a car quickly becomes the only sensible option. A large SUV, sure, that's a valid question. Some of it is also driven by geography/topology. These cities did not evolve with mass transport as an important option. To give you an idea of what this means in practice. I can get to the nearest major airport in about 30 minutes by car (at night, no traffic). If I want to use mass transit, it will take a minimum of 3 hours, only if you time it perfectly. It could take you six hours. It's worse than that. Here's what I would have to do: Walk 30 minutes Get on a bus for 35 minutes Walk for another 5 minutes Get on another bus for 54 minutes Walk another 5 minutes Get on a bus for 20 minutes Walk 30 minutes Arrived Remember that, these days, you have to be at the airport two to three hours before your flight. Now add weather, heat, rain, carrying luggage, perhaps travelling with kids, etc. I'm sorry, even the most ardent environmentalist is going to just throw everything into a large SUV or minivan and just get there. This reality will not change. These cities are simply not designed for what exists in other parts of the world. The only hope we have is a future where shared self-driving robot cars can make a difference. I can't see anything else that might change this reality.
hnbad 4y ago
Is wanting to drive 3-ton SUVs everywhere something inherent to those humans or do you think there are other circumstances encouraging that? And do you think those circumstances could be changed? Sometimes I get the impression that despite all the futurism talk most tech people's solution to a trash fire is to say nothing can be done about it and just go back to the line of people throwing more trash into the fire.
- midoridensha 4y ago
  Nothing can be done about the trash fire when everyone else actually likes the trash fire. One person can't change the world (not when everyone else is opposed to him). Sure, you can blame the 3-ton SUV proliferation on the car-centric society Americans have created for themselves, but that isn't going to change anytime soon, unless Americans are forced to change it somehow. Sure, a lot of Americans complain about it, some of them even try to do something about it, but it isn't enough, because most other Americans actually like it that way and work against their efforts. Even the ones who complain mostly don't understand that it's a product of their own choices and how much they're contributing to the problem personally.