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> For example, Sweden’s National Board of Health and Welfare, which sets guidelines for care, determined earlier this year that the risks of puberty blockers an

> For example, Sweden’s National Board of Health and Welfare, which sets guidelines for care, determined earlier this year that the risks of puberty blockers and treatment with hormones “currently outweigh the possible benefits” for minors. What does Sweden do differently in their scientific community that they so frequently arrive at a different cost/benefit result than the rest of the West? This has happened so much that it's clearly not by chance. We saw them reach a different conclusion about lockdowns - the cost would not make up for the benefit. When the mRNA vaccines emerged, they too had a different determination of cost/benefit and they were one of the first countries to determine that the benefit does not make up for the risk in certain populations. Then puberty blockers for minors, which in the US are effectively considered a perfect treatment with no side effects and to express even a hint of hesitation is met with professional and personal ruin. It's unthinkable in the US today, yet it would not surprise me if this is Sweden again lapping the other countries in what will be scientific consensus in 5 years time.

kamranjon 4y ago
Sweden had one of the highest death rates in Europe during the first wave and did not fare so well on the second wave of the pandemic either. Their own government formed a commision that concluded they were unprepared and that earlier and more extensive action should have been taken before the first wave.
- midoridensha 4y ago
  This doesn't answer the OP's question: "What does Sweden do differently in their scientific community..." Obviously, they're doing something very differently, though with the pandemic it seems, the results weren't very good.
- nwienert 4y ago
  Total excess mortality compared pre and post pandemic they are likely the very best of all euro countries. There were a few extensive Twitter threads into this recently, but the latest data is showing they likely did at or near the best.
- hnra 4y ago
  Sweden had a lower or same excess death rates than almost all other European countries [1]. The large death spikes early on in the pandemic can be mostly explained by the fact that Sweden had a much lower death rate among its elderly population in the years preceding the pandemic (if I recall correctly). [1]: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-deaths-cumulative-per-100k-economist?country=OWID_WRL~CHN~IND~USA~IDN~BRA https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-deaths-cumulative-...
Unduereturn 4y ago
This is very interesting as Ive been under the impression that Sweden is generally seen as very accommodating to transgender ideology. I belive that many people flock there for comfort in acceptance. Perhaps they analyse and leverage more data of the outcomes and wellbeing of these people.
brabel 4y ago
The rest of the West has a unified position regarding this? No way. Sweden's position is based on lots of cases of teenagers regretting the procedure and some even suing the government for allowing them to have done it... it's not a position Sweden arrived at out of prejudice, if you know the social situation in Sweden today you would definitely understand that.
- red-iron-pine 4y ago
  I don't buy the "lots of teenagers". Maybe a couple, plus a lot of media coverage. Give me a source.
  - brabel 4y ago
    In Swedish: https://svenska.yle.fi/a/7-1431961 https://svenska.yle.fi/a/7-1431961 and https://www.svt.se/nyheter/granskning/ug/explosionsartad-okning-av-tonaringar-som-genomgar-konskorrigering https://www.svt.se/nyheter/granskning/ug/explosionsartad-okn... and https://www.svt.se/nyheter/granskning/ug/har-behandlas-flera-som-angrar-sin-konskorrigering-fem-till-tio-personer https://www.svt.se/nyheter/granskning/ug/har-behandlas-flera... In summary, there's been a recent explosing in the number of people performing transition in the last 10 years or so (from around 20 people per year in 2003 to 2007, to over 400 people in 2018)... so the number of cases where we have information about this is very few, and those who used to do it in the past, despite the stigma, were likely much more "certain" that this is what they want. But of that older generation, only 2.2% are known to have actually gone though a de-transition (the figure does not include those who did seek help but did not go through with the process)... however, it's possible that many more regret it but never tried to revert it, as de-transitioning is even more difficult, and perhaps even more "embarrassing" (sorry for the term, I don't know if it's the best word here as I don't think anyone should be embarrassed for that, but I suspect they do) for the person to "come out" than for transitioning. One doctor interviewed claims "a handful" of patients (5 to 10) they treated have regreted and are currently detransitioning. So I think my argument that "lots of teenagers" are regreting is accurate, given there's a lot of other doctors doing this in Sweden, but up to you to make up your mind if a handful of people doesn't matter. What shocked most people was the fact that teens as young as 14 were allowed to go through with the transition despite them having other serious mental health issues (half of the girls had autism or self-harm issues or anorexia) and without a serious, properly investigated diagnosis. Some who regret have to keep their identity secret because apparently they get told that they are hurting the trans community by talking about it, so it's not unresonable to believe at least some people decide to keep quiet about their regrets. Finally, researchers in this area seem to agree that there's almost no data regarding the long term impact of transitioning and hence the process should be much more scrutinized than it currently is (some of the trans in the linked articles say they were basically treated as "lab rabbits")... Hope that informs you enough to understand the debate that has been going on in Sweden, which unlike in the US, almost completely lacks the transphobic arguments and focuses on the actual data (or lack thereof) regarding trans people's wellbeing and whether there's enough evidence that people who are allowed to transition could not have been just suffering from other mental issues at the time their extremely serious decision was made.
reducesuffering 4y ago
The Scandinavian countries are well-run high trust societies that score highly on most positive metrics. Most of the rest of the world are run like shit-shows in comparison.

kamranjon 4y ago

Sweden had one of the highest death rates in Europe during the first wave and did not fare so well on the second wave of the pandemic either. Their own government formed a commision that concluded they were unprepared and that earlier and more extensive action should have been taken before the first wave.

midoridensha 4y ago
This doesn't answer the OP's question: "What does Sweden do differently in their scientific community..." Obviously, they're doing something very differently, though with the pandemic it seems, the results weren't very good.
nwienert 4y ago
Total excess mortality compared pre and post pandemic they are likely the very best of all euro countries. There were a few extensive Twitter threads into this recently, but the latest data is showing they likely did at or near the best.
hnra 4y ago
Sweden had a lower or same excess death rates than almost all other European countries [1]. The large death spikes early on in the pandemic can be mostly explained by the fact that Sweden had a much lower death rate among its elderly population in the years preceding the pandemic (if I recall correctly). [1]: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-deaths-cumulative-per-100k-economist?country=OWID_WRL~CHN~IND~USA~IDN~BRA https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-deaths-cumulative-...

Unduereturn 4y ago

This is very interesting as Ive been under the impression that Sweden is generally seen as very accommodating to transgender ideology. I belive that many people flock there for comfort in acceptance. Perhaps they analyse and leverage more data of the outcomes and wellbeing of these people.

brabel 4y ago

The rest of the West has a unified position regarding this? No way. Sweden's position is based on lots of cases of teenagers regretting the procedure and some even suing the government for allowing them to have done it... it's not a position Sweden arrived at out of prejudice, if you know the social situation in Sweden today you would definitely understand that.

red-iron-pine 4y ago
I don't buy the "lots of teenagers". Maybe a couple, plus a lot of media coverage. Give me a source.
- brabel 4y ago
  In Swedish: https://svenska.yle.fi/a/7-1431961 https://svenska.yle.fi/a/7-1431961 and https://www.svt.se/nyheter/granskning/ug/explosionsartad-okning-av-tonaringar-som-genomgar-konskorrigering https://www.svt.se/nyheter/granskning/ug/explosionsartad-okn... and https://www.svt.se/nyheter/granskning/ug/har-behandlas-flera-som-angrar-sin-konskorrigering-fem-till-tio-personer https://www.svt.se/nyheter/granskning/ug/har-behandlas-flera... In summary, there's been a recent explosing in the number of people performing transition in the last 10 years or so (from around 20 people per year in 2003 to 2007, to over 400 people in 2018)... so the number of cases where we have information about this is very few, and those who used to do it in the past, despite the stigma, were likely much more "certain" that this is what they want. But of that older generation, only 2.2% are known to have actually gone though a de-transition (the figure does not include those who did seek help but did not go through with the process)... however, it's possible that many more regret it but never tried to revert it, as de-transitioning is even more difficult, and perhaps even more "embarrassing" (sorry for the term, I don't know if it's the best word here as I don't think anyone should be embarrassed for that, but I suspect they do) for the person to "come out" than for transitioning. One doctor interviewed claims "a handful" of patients (5 to 10) they treated have regreted and are currently detransitioning. So I think my argument that "lots of teenagers" are regreting is accurate, given there's a lot of other doctors doing this in Sweden, but up to you to make up your mind if a handful of people doesn't matter. What shocked most people was the fact that teens as young as 14 were allowed to go through with the transition despite them having other serious mental health issues (half of the girls had autism or self-harm issues or anorexia) and without a serious, properly investigated diagnosis. Some who regret have to keep their identity secret because apparently they get told that they are hurting the trans community by talking about it, so it's not unresonable to believe at least some people decide to keep quiet about their regrets. Finally, researchers in this area seem to agree that there's almost no data regarding the long term impact of transitioning and hence the process should be much more scrutinized than it currently is (some of the trans in the linked articles say they were basically treated as "lab rabbits")... Hope that informs you enough to understand the debate that has been going on in Sweden, which unlike in the US, almost completely lacks the transphobic arguments and focuses on the actual data (or lack thereof) regarding trans people's wellbeing and whether there's enough evidence that people who are allowed to transition could not have been just suffering from other mental issues at the time their extremely serious decision was made.

reducesuffering 4y ago

The Scandinavian countries are well-run high trust societies that score highly on most positive metrics. Most of the rest of the world are run like shit-shows in comparison.