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I find it frustrating that this article doesn't explore the tension between the "never rewrite" and ARM anecdotes. Iterating is good, but iterating to a whole n

by mjb 4y ago

I find it frustrating that this article doesn't explore the tension between the "never rewrite" and ARM anecdotes. Iterating is good, but iterating to a whole new place is often impossible, and the biggest disruptions come from being in a different place. It's a core tension in systems design, and one that this (otherwise good) article doesn't acknowledge. Do read "The Tyranny of Structurelessness", though. Great read. I enjoyed the analogies to distributed systems here, too.

short_throw 4y ago
Well I think if Intel had decided to start from scratch to make "x86 only more power efficient, it'll only take one product cycle" they would have failed miserably, but if they said "let's make a phone cpu, that's our new top priority" that program could have grown into making great laptop cpus a decade later. Making a new product that fills a new niche in a short timespan is viable. Making a product to directly replace what the old system does after decades of iteration is usually a delusion.
nerpderp82 4y ago
> Intel could never create a product like ARM Intel's StrongARM (originally DEC) chip had the highest perf/watt of any cpu in the industry. They later sold StrongARM to Marvell for 600M. Not only couldn't they create it, they couldn't continue to sell it even though it was widely successful. The "tyranny essay" is wonderful on many levels. It is mostly about human social-political structures, if one wanted to be true to "structurelessness" you would have to have a constructed double-blind system to enforce it. Otherwise you get fascist overlay that breaks along existing personal power dynamics. The in-group, central cadre and then everyone else on the periphery. Structureless movements can be extremely effect at scaling an organization, but at some point you need to collapse that chaos into something cohesive. https://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm https://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tyranny_of_Structurelessness https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tyranny_of_Structurelessne... > This lack of structure, Freeman writes, disguised an informal, unacknowledged, and unaccountable leadership, and in this way ensured its malefaction by denying its existence.[3] As a solution, Freeman suggests formalizing the existing hierarchies in the group and subjecting them to democratic control. Due to the writing style, I found it really effective for my understanding was to have chatgpt summarize and explain passages, and then have it explain it again.

by mjb 4y ago

short_throw 4y ago

Well I think if Intel had decided to start from scratch to make "x86 only more power efficient, it'll only take one product cycle" they would have failed miserably, but if they said "let's make a phone cpu, that's our new top priority" that program could have grown into making great laptop cpus a decade later. Making a new product that fills a new niche in a short timespan is viable. Making a product to directly replace what the old system does after decades of iteration is usually a delusion.

nerpderp82 4y ago

> Intel could never create a product like ARM Intel's StrongARM (originally DEC) chip had the highest perf/watt of any cpu in the industry. They later sold StrongARM to Marvell for 600M. Not only couldn't they create it, they couldn't continue to sell it even though it was widely successful. The "tyranny essay" is wonderful on many levels. It is mostly about human social-political structures, if one wanted to be true to "structurelessness" you would have to have a constructed double-blind system to enforce it. Otherwise you get fascist overlay that breaks along existing personal power dynamics. The in-group, central cadre and then everyone else on the periphery. Structureless movements can be extremely effect at scaling an organization, but at some point you need to collapse that chaos into something cohesive. https://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm https://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tyranny_of_Structurelessness https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tyranny_of_Structurelessne... > This lack of structure, Freeman writes, disguised an informal, unacknowledged, and unaccountable leadership, and in this way ensured its malefaction by denying its existence.[3] As a solution, Freeman suggests formalizing the existing hierarchies in the group and subjecting them to democratic control. Due to the writing style, I found it really effective for my understanding was to have chatgpt summarize and explain passages, and then have it explain it again.